The case for canceling all student debt

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by Durandal, Feb 16, 2018.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think their stance here is a lot similar to their position on Amnesty.

    "we'll only need to do this once, but let's just keep on doing the same things we did before"
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
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  2. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    They aren't kids.
    They are adults.
     
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  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    young adults though

    some of these kids can be pretty vulnerable and exploited by unscrupulous loan companies

    I've seen it happen. These younger people shouldn't be able to take out a loan for $60,000.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
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  4. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    It isnt hard to pay off student debt so long as you got a worthwhile degree. I paid mine off in 2 years.
     
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  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The issue is a lot of people didn't, or took a lot longer than 4 years to finish the degree.

    In some cases they got degrees of questionable value from private universities, not knowing any better because they lacked wisdom about these sorts of decisions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
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  6. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Anecdotally, here in the UK, that's the issue in the UK newspapers and political debates. But the Uni leavers I worked with last year had all come out debt free.
    They had taken jobs and "real" degree's. Not what I had been led to expect.

    Obviously I am bias.
    But I consider the Japanese education system to be the one to beat.

    In my last school, every university student In my class, bar one had a job. You know, MacDonalds or something similar.
    So that's the norm. That's at their top university. Privately funded.

    These people place a higher cultural value on education.

    In my country (UK) state school starts a 9 and finishes at 3.30.
    After this kids go home. It's taxpayer funded.

    In Japan the same is true. Taxpayer funded, starts at 9 until 3.30. And then.... not go home. And then go to fee paying school until 10 pm.
    So this is a culture for whom all parents send their kids to fee paying schools already.

    Their students typically go to university in their home towns and live with mum and dad throughout. Not like in the UK where the students need housing and get to piss it up for 3 years while living away from home.
    I still get the odd politics and economics students. (Due to Brexit I had a bumper year for them). So non degree's do still exist.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
  7. james M

    james M Banned

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    oh, so supply and demand should determine investments not govt monopolist bureaucrats spending other people's money collected at gunpoint?
     
  8. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    It has been very interesting to talk with you and that although I do not agree with many of your points, and hence am benefited by my exposure to them, I have always respected the manner in which you put them forward.
    I have however long felt that people who make their fortune by stealing from others must pay the price for it. Social exclusion being that price.
     
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  9. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    They aren't kids.
    Having described them as adults, you went right back to referring to them as kids again.
    They aren't.

    They can get a mortgage for more. Other adults their age do. (Not to mention raise families).
    By their age I had started a multi-national company and my TV shows were on 1 in 4 television sets world wide.
    Without a loan my company would never have got bump started. We'd have been drug dealers instead.

    Why shouldn't adults be able to borrow money to better advantage themselves?
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
  10. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    First, thanks for the kind words.

    Second, I agree that we need more social accountability. I would begin by compelling war profiteers to compensate society for their thievery and then proceed to end all foreign tax shelters. Thereafter, we can make other needed reforms.
     
  11. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    That supply & demand theory determines the logic of free tertiary education is pretty clearcut...
     
  12. james M

    james M Banned

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    does the logic require taxes to be collected at gunpoint or merely free people freely supplying and demanding things?
     
  13. james M

    james M Banned

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    why is the liberal so afraid to say who is the most obvious war profiteer???
     
  14. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like universities need to recieve regulations and lawsuits to increase openness and honesty. It should be like the ingredients on food. You should know exactly what it is you are buying and consuming and the consequences of doing so.

    Henceforth the Universities will be regulated by the FDA.
     
  15. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Graduates, on average, earn more money and pay more taxes. Shock, horror!
     
  16. james M

    james M Banned

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    and that is not enough incentive for them become graduates? People who don't want to be graduates or cant qualify to be graduates must subsidize their superiors at gunpoint? What is the great attraction to violence anyway? Its an old world thing-right?

    and of course lets not forget that free education is one of 1000 welfare freebies that a libcommie will support
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
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  17. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Such loans should NEVER be approved for courses which won't secure immediate and well paid jobs. And absolutely should not be available for anything in the Arts & Humanities. Those are 'vanity' fields, strictly for the children of the mega rich. They're not vocational courses at all, and should not be regarded as such.
     
  18. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    They'll just earn less (which isn't hard, if you took Gender Studies). Make the cut off $18k.
     
  19. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You don't seem to understand the economics! You have to factor in human capital expectations and also skewed return created by social capital.
     
  20. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I don't mean to be rude, but why on earth would you bother with college if you're not going to be making $100k out of the gate? I have a relative who graduated recently and started at $120k.
     
  21. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    What utter garbage! My most valuable employees did Arts & Humanities degrees. They have the critical appraisal skills I need.
     
  22. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Myself and my husband both self-funded our studies via working full time (studying at night). Took longer, but that's how it goes if you're not from a wealthy family. Meantime, there is absolutely nothing wrong with borrowing for books and expenses, if you've chosen a course which will make repayments a breeze. Can't help on the 'room' thing, as we don't do that 'living in' thing in this country.
     
  23. james M

    james M Banned

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    You mean economics says those who don't want to or cant qualify to be graduates must subsidize graduates at gunpoint?
    Is the love of violence inbred in the old world?
     
  24. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Good for you. I wouldn't give them a cent of borrowed money.
     
  25. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    And if your Arts grad never earns enough?
     

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