Why 'Climate Change' Alarmists Will NEVER Debate Skeptics

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Wehrwolfen, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,710
    Likes Received:
    13,467
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Dude .. The Global warming bandwagon attracted huge amounts of money and attention. With this money came the building of pyramids within Gov'ts of all industrialized nations.

    We should be surprised that there was not more falsification and fudging and "Pious fraud". ...as pyramids within Gov't are so wont to do. Look at the second hand smoke nonsense ... EPA had one of their studies labeled "Bad Science" in a court of law. Do you seriously think that if second hand smoke has a significant risk of harm ... that someone could smoke (inhaling the stuff directly and not diluted ...along with the second hand stuff on a regulate basis) for 50 years and still be alive ... but someone who accidentally get's a whif of second hand smoke is in deathly peril. We do not need to do a study to know the answer to that one.

    But I digress. Just because you have a few frauds out there does not negate all the good science that has been done ... and there is a while lot of it.

    The spike in CO2 concentration in our atmosphere is not a fraud. It sticks out like a sore thumb on a page. Since CO2 will trap more heat this is some solid evidence - although not conclusive proof because although it is agreed that increased CO2 will have some warming effect .. it is tough to predict how much.

    Another sore thumb is the melting of the sea ice and ice caps such as in Greenland. It is not that these things have not happened before .. such as in the age of the dinosaurs but, that it happened so fast. This tells you that (sans some specifically locatable phenomenon - such as a volcano erupting or some such thing) something unnatural is going on.

    That said ... warming is not the worst thing in the world. Sure we lose some land mass but it is not an extinction level event.

    The most serious environmental issue on the planet - and this is something that is not debated by serious people who work or have worked these fields of expertise ( such as me) is pollution of the oceans - heavy metals, and persistent organic pollutants (POP's) and nutrient loading.

    It is not that I am not concerned about Global warming ... sure I am but, it's 4th on the list.

    More than 2 cans of tuna a week and you will exceed the mercury guidelines for pregnant women. There are dead zones (cased by fertilizer and sewage put into the oceans) - bacteria multiply and use up the oxygen. These are just a few - bottom line is that the ocean is not a garbage can.

    2/3 is population increase and industrialization. From a study I read 10 years ago there were roughly 1.4 Billion people industrialized. This means there are 6 Billion who are not. If China alone were to get to our level of consumption - world resource production would have to double. That is just China. With industrialization comes more pollution ... when some one goes from eating a bowl of rice a day to eating a piece of meat once in awhile you increase the amount of fertilizer and waste that is going to go into the ocean. If we are messing up the oceans with 1.4 Billion industrialize .. what happens when we industrialize 4.2 billion .. a 300% increase ?

    Anyways .. there is my 2 cents.
     
  2. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    31,814
    Likes Received:
    13,377
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We are in an inter glacial period, yes.

    The earth is supposed to be heating up right now until it passes and the ice-age continues its cycle and then it will end. All the ice will go away for awhile and then the planet will freeze again.

    It doesn't really matter what we do, we won't change that process unless we can affect the tilt and the rotation of the planet.
     
  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,878
    Likes Received:
    73,635
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    That it has happened before which is why we know what will happen now unless we act

    Not one scientist has denied climate has changed in the past.

    But there is always a reason. Some trigger causing the change and what the denialists consistently refuse to do is identify what the trigger for the current change is
     
  4. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,878
    Likes Received:
    73,635
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    And the Percentage of co2

    Or do you think that is irrelevant?
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  5. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    31,814
    Likes Received:
    13,377
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Irrelevant to what?

    Do you think we are going to prevent an ice-age?

    What we are seeing from Co2 build up is not constant earth heating but climate change, in fact, many places are getting colder so if you want to blame it on us you are not making a good argument.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  6. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,878
    Likes Received:
    73,635
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Really average temps are getting colder

    Where???
     
  7. Charles Rice

    Charles Rice Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2018
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    You're right about that. But you didn't take the next step. Why do the "alarmist" as you put it make predictions at all? Because they are required to by those giving the money for the research. It is what happens when the "cut spending to the bone" crowd is put in control of the budget.
     
  8. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
    Messages:
    7,792
    Likes Received:
    4,229
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Wehrwolfen likes this.
  9. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2017
    Messages:
    899
    Likes Received:
    339
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Female
    Are you making a blanket statement that scientists are in it for the money? I'm sure Newton could have made a lot more by playing the stock market than gravity.

    Scientists have to analyze the data and make reproducible experiments. This, by nature, does not make them an "alarmist".

    :EDIT:

    Is it because there's no simplistic mathematical equation that people are willing to dismiss evidence all over?

    Oh yeah, and denier arguments here seem to be clutching at straws...
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
    Wehrwolfen likes this.
  10. Wehrwolfen

    Wehrwolfen Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    25,350
    Likes Received:
    5,257
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    ~~~~
    I fully agree, that is the natural cycle of Earth along with the cycle of the Sun...
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  11. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2017
    Messages:
    899
    Likes Received:
    339
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Female
    Reference that.

    I think the Earth should be getting colder (but this is in a millions of years time frame not the current predicament).
     
  12. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2018
    Messages:
    31,942
    Likes Received:
    15,603
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What is their 'agenda'?

    What is the harm in believing climate change is happening? What's the downside? Is it bad to recycle? Is it bad to use energy efficient appliances? Is it bad to use solar power for your home which in turn can lower your bills? Is it bad to make cars more fuel efficient which in turn saves money on gas? What is the real harm here?
     
  13. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    25,426
    Likes Received:
    8,068
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    They are one worldlers that want to control all aspect of everyones lives. Basically commies. Oh and of course they want to be in charge.
     
  14. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2017
    Messages:
    899
    Likes Received:
    339
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Female
    When I last checked, oil companies fit that description. I think, may be wrong, that there is more money in oil than caring about global warming.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  15. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    25,426
    Likes Received:
    8,068
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Since you hate oil companies, do you own a car and heat your house. Oh and dont use electric lights.
     
  16. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2017
    Messages:
    899
    Likes Received:
    339
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Female
    Yep, F*ck the future!

    :EDIT:

    More conspiracy theories, please. What should I surmise just from table scraps of your wisdom. The untold knowledge you possess -it makes me quiver in anticipation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  17. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2018
    Messages:
    31,942
    Likes Received:
    15,603
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Scientists want to 'control all aspects of everyone's lives'? How so? In what way would they 'control every aspect of your life'?
     
  18. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    37,786
    Likes Received:
    14,566
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's OK. The deniers don't take you seriously either.
     
  19. Charles Rice

    Charles Rice Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2018
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3

    Quite the opposite.

    I'll just take an example from history; the GI Bill when WWII was over; as viewed in the 2018 prism was a wholesale success. Millions of vets attended college, got training, got housing assistance, etc.. If it had happened under this current climate (from about 1990-present), there would be 1/2 of the nation bitching about the waste of money since none of the vets have cured cancer, visited Mars, developed a metal friendly microwave, etc... You saw this with the ACA. Medical bills are the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy because the uninsured had to wait for a pain to become a syndrome or disease before it was treated. Millions of uninsured people received health insurance and could go to the doctor instead of the emergency room. That wasn't good enough for the critics. And, you see it with the 2nd Amendment...if something doesn't solve every scenario for mass murder, it's discarded without debate.

    What I was saying was that the scientist who live in an environment where there are very few certainties that come from their study, are asked now to come up with certainties such as times and places and outcomes. The outcomes are going to be alarming at times.
     
    Lesh likes this.
  20. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    18,423
    Likes Received:
    886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So the way you figure it, the researchers have to lie to make a living. Have I got that right?
    You need instruction as to the problem with believing politically motivated propaganda? Really?
    No, it's bad to force people to do all those things when they don't benefit anyone but crony capitalists and government parasites.
    Obviously you never checked.
    There isn't more money in oil than the federal government can force out of taxpayers or crank out from thin air.
     
  21. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No one (least of all actual scientists) are saying that temp increase is happening in a uniform manner. In case you haven't noticed...weather is somewhat complicated.

    But what is indisputable is that Global AVERAGE temps are increasing.
     
  22. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2017
    Messages:
    899
    Likes Received:
    339
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Female
    OK. Relieve me from my ignorance.
     
  23. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2018
    Messages:
    31,942
    Likes Received:
    15,603
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So let me try this again...what is the harm in believing climate change is happening?
     
  24. Beer w/Straw

    Beer w/Straw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2017
    Messages:
    899
    Likes Received:
    339
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Female
    So, Donald Trump is a scientist because he gives certainty?

    Well, at least in rhetoric.
     
  25. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2018
    Messages:
    31,942
    Likes Received:
    15,603
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Explain to me how putting paper and plastic into a separate bin to recycle instead of throwing it into a trash pile and wasting it benefits crony capitalists and govt parasites?
    Explain to me how using energy efficient appliances which LOWERS your energy bills benefits crony capitalists and govt parasites?
    Explain to me how using solar power and again saving your OWN money benefits crony capitalists and govt parasites?
    Explain to me how more fuel efficient cars, which again saves YOU money at the pump benefits crony capitalists and govt parasites?
     
    Lesh likes this.

Share This Page