First the Marquis de Lafayette, now Emmanuel Macron

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Sandy Shanks, Apr 24, 2018.

  1. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    President Emmanuel Macron of France knows how to play Trump and he is playing him like a banjo. Macron is busy telling the naive American President what his foreign policy should be.

    Macron knows Trump dug himself a hole by first promising to rip up the Iran deal. Then, in March, based on a whim and solely on the word of a South Korean envoy, Trump agreed to talk to the North Korean dictator.

    It is just beginning to dawn on Trump that the two matters are mutually exclusive. If he reneges on the Iran agreement, it is not likely that Kim will sign any agreement with Trump. Knowing all this, accompanied by Macron, Trump blustered his way through a news conference today with his usual meaningless threats and rhetoric.

    He even had nice things to say about Kim. “We’re having very, very good discussions,” Trump said. “Kim Jong-un, he really has been very open and I think very honorable from everything we’re seeing.” Strange, really strange. How does he know Kim is an honorable man? He doesn't. Trump has never met him. "We’re having very, very good discussions." With who? Just another Trump fabrication. Happens all the time.

    Macron knows all this, and he offered Trump a way out without loosing face. Macron suggested a supplemental deal with European allies. Trump signaled on Tuesday that he was open to a new arrangement with European allies that would preserve the Iran nuclear agreement by expanding and extending its terms to further constrain Tehran’s development of weapons and destabilizing activities in the Middle East.

    Trump harrumphed about the current agreement sealed by his predecessor as a “terrible deal” but said he could agree to “a new deal” negotiated by American and European officials if it was strong enough. Trump dug himself a hole. Macron threw him a rope.

    How Iran, Russia, and China will feel about the "new deal" was not discussed. It does not matter.

    Germany's Angela Merkel is coming to Washington later this week to also tell Trump what his foreign should be regarding Iran, tariffs, and Syria.

    When it came to Syria, Trump knows perfectly well he was wrong when he tried to set American foreign policy at a campaign rally in Ohio. To a cheering audience he told his loyal base he would be bringing our troops home "very soon." Macron convinced him that was the wrong approach to Syria. At the news conference, Trump was all over the map in his explanations, but he was clear on a few points.

    "With that being said, Emmanuel and myself have discussed the fact that we don’t want to give Iran open season to the Mediterranean, especially since we really control it to a large extent," Trump said. He added, "With that being said, I do want to come home, but I want to come home also with having accomplished what we have to accomplish."

    Now it is bringing our troops home "as soon as possible." That is Trump's code for leaving them there until their mission has been accomplished. What that mission is, Trump has not said exactly.

    Discussions concerning Trump's protectionist tariffs were on hold. The exemption for the EU runs out on May 1. ABC News reports, "The EU's trade chief said Monday that the bloc's two most powerful leaders will tell U.S. President Donald Trump to back off on plans to impose steel and aluminum tariffs when they visit Washington this week.

    "French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Angela Merkel will meet separately with Trump and are bent on safeguarding trans-Atlantic unity to face common challenges, from Iran to North Korea and beyond.

    "Both will insist that unity would be threatened if Trump starts imposing punitive tariffs on key EU industries."

    Is Trump beginning to realize he screwed up again? Will he be forced by facts on the ground to change his mind ... again! Facts everyone else knew long before he imposed the tariffs.
     
  2. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    There are times I find the Trump Network, pardon me, Fox News very entertaining. Such an example occurred the other day when I watched Chris Wallace interview the French president, Emmanuel Macron. Wallace portrayed the French president as Trump's friend.

    They may be friends, but they are world's apart when it comes to the interests they share.

    Macron was vehement when he described Trump using tariffs as a weapon against friendly nations. France faces a May 1st deadline, when Trump's tariffs on steel and aluminum may be imposed on the EU.

    Macron was equally decisive in his opposition to Trump when it came to the Iran nuclear deal. Trump is threatening to remove the U.S. from the deal. All other signatories, including France, are strongly opposed to Trump's position. The deadline for a decision is May 12.

    Trump wants to withdraw all American troops from Syria. Macron feels that would be a serious mistake as long as Assad remains in power and maintains his relationship with Putin.

    Macron is wary of Putin. Trump is still infatuated with Putin, and he still hasn't condemned him for interfering in our election.

    Macron thinks Trump made a serious mistake when he withdrew the U.S. from the Paris Accord. Macron thinks climate change is very real. Trump thinks it is a Chinese hoax.

    I ask you what else is there? What do they agree on? Not much. So, while Wallace characterizes the two Presidents as friends, that does not mean a whole lot when it comes to the many issues that divide them. Friendship usually implies agreement on the matters friends share, but, again, when it comes to Trump, what is the norm, what is appropriate, does not apply to him.
     
  3. therooster

    therooster Banned

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    Oh boy look. The Trump is the devil because he treats the president of France with respect . Wow. You got him this time ... what a hoot .... lol.. Oh you guys... is this you morning joe?
     
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  4. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

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    Trade sucks and so does Macron. I'm not going to start liking people just because they get along poorly with Trump.
     
  5. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    We can always be sure that there will be different and opposing analyses of events. The few that are not partisan are worth considering. This is partisan.
     
  6. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    What are you talking about?

    I said, "Wallace portrayed the French president as Trump's friend. They may be friends, but they are world's apart when it comes to the interests they share."

    I then went on to show what those interests are, Trump's steel and aluminum tariffs, Iran nuclear deal, Syria, and the Paris Accord. In each case they are poles apart.

    In other words, they are friends, supposedly, but they disagree on the important issues.
     
  7. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Trump was asked about his views on Syria. Once again, he failed to commit to any policy. Once again, he attempted to have it both ways. Once again, he made himself look foolish by meandering all around the map. The only goal he seemed to have was to bring our troops home as soon as possible, which is the goal of every President in every war. He tried to sound tough with his phony rhetoric, but all he did was create a lot of head shaking in bewilderment.

    Here is what he said. One might call it the Trump Doctrine.

    As far as Syria is concerned, I would love to get out. I would love to bring our incredible warriors back home. They’ve done a great job; we’ve essentially just absolutely obliterated ISIS in Iraq, and in Syria. And we’ve done a big favor to neighboring countries, frankly, but we’ve also done a favor for our country.

    With that being said, Emmanuel and myself have discussed the fact that we don’t want to give Iran open season to the Mediterranean, especially since we really control it to a large extent. We really have controlled it, and we’ve set control on it.

    So we’ll see what happens. But we’re going to be coming home relatively soon. We finished, at least almost, our work with respect to ISIS in Syria, ISIS in Iraq. And we have done a job that nobody has been able to do. With that being said, I do want to come home, but I want to come home also with having accomplished what we have to accomplish.


    See what I mean? If you can make sense of it, you are better person than I.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  8. Bluebird

    Bluebird Well-Known Member

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    What I will remember from this visit---All the kissing, all the handshakes, trump wiping the dandruff off Macron's jacket, Melania's (copying Princess Dianna)huge white hat,( but, very pretty outfit)a state dinner that trump said during the campaign that he would never have, and once again, cheating trump "trying" to hold Melania's hand for a photo op,Macron playing trump like a well tuned fiddle.....pomp
     
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  9. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Thank you. You must agree with my analysis of the various issues. You didn't challenge anything I wrote.

    What I am wondering is how long Trump and Macron will remain friends. They differ on every major issue the two countries share, Iran deal, Syria, Trump's tariffs, and the Paris Accord and global warming.

    After Tuesday's hugs and kisses, on Wednesday, before a joint session of Congress, the charismatic French leader turned around and repudiated Trump's entire political philosophy and worldview.

    Macron wanted to effectively defend the world order from Trump's "America First" nationalism. Macron wants to bind the Trump administration into the existing Western international system, to convince it to dive back into multilateral efforts to shut down Iran's nuclear program by supporting the Iran nuclear deal, to battle climate change, and to safeguard globalization and free trade.

    Macron said all that to the American Congress and to the American media. It runs counter to everything Trump believes.

    Finally, someone publicly told Trump that his entire foreign policy was all wrong. If Trump reneges on the Iran deal, Iran will restart its nuclear program and he can kiss any negotiations with Kim goodbye. Tariffs should not be used to threaten friends. Withdrawing from Syria is extremely premature and downright dangerous. Nationalism is dangerous because it isolates nations and causes wars.

    Trump is not accustomed to receiving a highly public smack-down, albeit one he justly deserves. Are the two friends going to be all warm and fuzzy after Macron's little speech? The world wants to know.
     
  10. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    On the tariffs issue there did not seem to be much progress.

    Trump has vowed to slap tariffs of 25 percent on imports of steel and 10 percent on aluminum on our EU trading partners. The 28-nation European Union, of which France is a part, has a temporary waiver from the tariffs.

    But that could change next week. The Trump administration set a May 1 deadline for decisions on exemptions if a new agreement isn’t reached to either permanently exclude the EU or provide more time to reach a deal that would stop the tariffs.

    During his speech to Congress, Macron said that facing challenges in a growing global economy “requires the opposite of massive deregulation and extreme nationalism.”

    “A commercial war is not consistent with our mission, with our history with our current commitments for global security,” Macron told lawmakers on Capitol Hill. He added, “At the end of the day it will destroy jobs, increase prices and the middle class will have to pay for it.”

    Trump, who seems to have an opinion on just about everything, had no comment to Macron's revelations except to say, “I’m not going to say what I’ll do, even if you have an inkling."

    The moronic response was typical Trump. He cannot even defend his own policies.
     
  11. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    All that went away the next day. Macron laid into Trump before the U.S. Congress, attacking nearly everything Trump holds near and dear, piss off our trading partners with tariffs, renege on the Iran deal to allow Iran to begin nuclear processing again, exiting Syria leaving a murderous thug as dictator, and MAGA and nationalism.

    Macron trashed all of it publicly. Before Congress!

    Trump was rendered speechless. Not even a tweet.
     
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  12. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    The rest of the world wants U.S. power and money. Everything Macron said points to that. The whole thing is worth ignoring by any American. We have stopped being the patsy for the planet. Non Americans don't like that. They prefer easy prey. I reject your entire post.
     
  13. therooster

    therooster Banned

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    Lol.... join the crowd .....
     
  14. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Trump was misled by Macron's charm. Following the lint removal, hugs, and kisses on Tuesday, on Wednesday Macron appeared before the U.S. Congress and lambasted every Trump foreign policy position from the Iran nuclear deal to his absurd tariffs to Syria to the Paris Accord. Trump, who has an opinion on everything, will tweet about the most ludicrous of subjects, has had no reaction to Macron's lecturing. His policies are so foolhardy, not even he can defend them, and he certainly does not want to be confused with facts.

    He will not be confused by the staid, direct, logical approach of German Chancellor Angela Merkel. Trump does not like to be told when his policies are wrong, especially when the other party is right. Consequently, Merkel will have a paltry 20 minutes for a one-on-one with Trump in the Oval Office before a 90-minute lunch. Then it's straight to a 30-minute perfunctory press conference. In all, Merkel will have little more than two hours with President Trump, slotted in just before Trump's weekly weekend vacation at one of his resorts.

    Once again, Trump will be overwhelmed by the logic of the two European leaders and foolishness of his policies. Once again, in the face of Merkel's comments, Trump will demur from replying by statement or tweet, illustrating again the errors of his ways.
     
  15. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Macron said he believes Trump will pull out of the Iran nuclear deal next month "for domestic reasons," describing Trump's strategy as "insane" for its constant global policy U-turns.

    If Trump pulls the U.S. out of the agreement, there is little doubt that Iran will follow suit and restart its nuclear development program. If she is going to be punished by sanctions for the program, she might as well become active with it.

    Iran is in full compliance with the agreement. Not even Trump can say different. He says that because of missile development and terrorism issues, Iran is not compliance with the "spirit of the agreement." The nuclear deal is a nuclear deal, a concept Trump cannot understand. The agreement says nothing about missile development or state sponsored terrorism. The U.S.and the other members of the P5+1 agreed not complicate matters and deal only with Iran's nuclear capability. Muddying the waters with other issues would solve nothing. They were right and the naive and inexperienced Trump is wrong.

    In view of the facts -- Iran is in compliance, Iran will restart nuclear program if U.S. pulls out -- Trump is unable to justify pulling out of the agreement. All he can say is, "It's insane, it's ridiculous, it should haven ever been made. But we'll be talking about it. It was a terrible deal." He says that over and over again as if that alone justifies his position. Obviously, it does not in view of reality.

    That is another thing Trump has trouble with ... reality.
     
  16. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who has a problem with reality is you in your TDS messages.

    Once again, you pro-actively start a thread to try to replace truth with Democratic Party DTS alternative falsehoods. Of course you will be obsessed in your message at this next President Trump success.

    The only other comment is that to be a loyal Democratic Party partisan you have to support and express love of Iran and Kim Jung Un. Both are loyal acid tests of the Democratic Party. Anyone or any country that is a threat to the United States or does not like President Trump are the heroes of the Democratic Party and therefore their minioins.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  17. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    But you don't say why. Once again, you did not challenge a thing I said.

    Instead, you made this moronic statement, "The rest of the world wants U.S. power and money. Everything Macron said points to that." What are you talking about? Do you know?

    Do you have any sources for that remarkable, unsupported statement, or did it come from your butt?

    That is what Trump fans do. They throw crap out there and hope some of it sticks. They make characterizations without specifics and cannot explain what they are talking about because they just invented it.
     
  18. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Sorry insults end the conversation for me. Goodbye.
     
  19. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    You made a wise decision. You made some unsupported accusations against Macron. You said nothing about the arguments Macron made before Congress. You made no references to Trump's policies, which are the heart of this thread. You received the comments you deserve.

    What do you want from me? How am I supposed to deal with vague generalities?
     
  20. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    The President appeared by phone on the Trump Network. He called the commentators on "Fox and Friends" and ranted about his own DOJ and FBI, both run by Republicans he appointed. He threw his own lawyer, Cohen, under the bus while giving prosecutors additional evidence against both him and Cohen. He had high praises for his doctor who withdrew his nomination to head the V.A.

    Of course, he said nothing about his French visitor. Nor did he say anything about Macron's comments in front of Congress. Trump remains silent on his position regarding the Iran deal, his tariffs, Syria, and the Paris Accord. He cannot support his strategy. So, he avoids it.
     
  21. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    If that is true, then you ought to be able to correct the errors of my ways.

    But you didn't correct anything. You didn't question a single statement I made.

    I am a conservative.

    Tell me, why doesn't Trump talk about his upcoming successes? In front of the U.S. Congress, Macron was highly critical of every Trump policy, Iran nuclear deal, tariffs, Syria, and the Paris Accord. Trump still hasn't said a thing, not even a tweet concerning Macron's remarks. Trump has an opinion on just about everything, but he is silent about Macron's arguments.

    Why is that? Because he can't defend his own policies. Neither can you. You have avoided all of them.

    :roflol::rolleyes: o_O
     
  22. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Not only does Trump avoid all the issues raised by Macron, but so does his supporters. Time and time again I have addressed those issues on this thread, the Iran nuclear deal, Syria, Trump's tariffs, and the Paris Accord. Trump's fans simply refuse to talk about those extremely important issues facing our country.

    Why is that? Because they know Trump is dead wrong?
     
  23. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Here is what I find interesting. Do you know who is not talking about Trump's tariffs? Trump, that is who. Neither is the White House. Neither are his economic advisors. The looming May 1 deadline is fast approaching and it is all a big, dark secret as far as the administration is concerned.

    Before a joint session of Congress, French President Macron just ripped Trump a new one regarding the tariffs. Germany's Angela Merkel will be in town Friday to tell Trump the same thing.

    EU Trade Commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom said she had "not started to negotiate anything" with the US and would not do so until an "unconditional and permanent" exemption to the tariffs was granted.

    "We are under no circumstances negotiating anything under pressure, under threat," she said.


    No doubt the leaders of Canada, Mexico, Australia, Argentina, South Korea, Brazil will have a similar message.

    Trump's own party, economists, S&P 500 companies, Wall Street traders are telling Trump to forget the tariffs. The tariffs could cause him to lose part of his constituency, farmers.

    Through it all Trump is saying nothing. He is not even trying to justify the tariffs. That is a sure sign of a weak President. He cannot even support his own policy.
     
  24. Chronocide Fiend

    Chronocide Fiend Active Member

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    No doubt Macron has an angle. He is a politician. We will have to see just how “playable” Trump is. He will always be a wild card. I think that Macron is trying to influence Trump and by extension the United States. I also believe he is attempting to portray a more united west to the rest of the world, in order to dispel or at least limit the impression that the EU and US have fallen out.
     
  25. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    No you are supposed to avoid personal insults when posting.
     

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