One question for Christians and one for Muslims neither can answer

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Greenleft, Jun 18, 2018.

  1. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    What makes you think God is bound by any rules at all? or by anything besides His own promises?
     
  2. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    Probably the most satisfactory answer to the first question would be the Deist one, that God created a clockwork universe that works as intended. He does not "create" each individual child, that is the result of the joining of the sperm and the egg, just as intended, but within the marriage setting. Whether that occurs within marriage or without is up to the participants, not God.

    It's essentially a free will argument. Whether you harvest a crop on a Friday or a Saturday is up to you, free will, but one isn't a sin and the other is. The crop gets harvested either way. Same thing with baby making.

    I'm atheist, too, but for different reasons than the sexual commandments.
     
  3. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    I am satisfied with that answer. To me (I am 99% atheist) that would make sense. Unfortunately, that explanation would not work in the world view of many Christians (not all) because the clockwork universe would completely support evolution. Also, many Christians believe in an interventionist Yahweh and with a clockwork universe, that would mean Yahweh is constantly pressing the reset button.
     
  4. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    Deists proper don't or didn't believe in an interventionist Yahweh/Jehovah, but I'm reminded of a line by Terry Pratchett, which I will butcher, I'm sure: To cause an avalanche, a wizard will shake a mountain while a witch will drop a snowflake in just the right spot. One can imagine a God who has created a clockwork universe then dropping a snowflake in just the right spot to answer a prayer. And there are certainly cases of things happening the odds of which are so far against that it seems like there was divine providence in it. I don't buy it anymore, but I used to.
     
  5. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Best thing you ever did.
     
  6. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    If you are born out of wedlock your decendants can't enter the church until after 10 generations have passed. But who's keeping track? So if someone ever asks why you don't go to church quote that gem.

    Deuteronomy 23:2 (GNT) = “No one born out of wedlock or any descendant of such a person, even in the tenth generation, may be included among the Lord's people."

    According to the Islamic fairy tale you hit the cosmic jackpot if you get killed (or die) during the haj. It's the best way to go.

    "Fiqh-us-Sunnah Volume 005, Hajj and 'Umrah, Fiqh 5.003A.
    Section : The Reward of Hajj is Paradise.

    Abu Hurairah says the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "All sins committed in between the performance of one 'Umrah and another are expiated and erased, and the reward of Hajj Mabrur is nothing save Paradise." (Bukhari and Muslim)

    In another sound hadith Ibn Joraij relates from Jabir that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "This House of Allah (the Ka'bah) is the pillar of Islam, so whosoever heads to it with the intention of performing Hajj or 'Umrah is under Allah's security. If he should die (during his trip) he is granted Paradise, and if he returns home safely, he returns with reward and gain.""
    http://hadithcollection.com/fiqh-ussunnah/389-Fiqh-us Sunnah Section 66. Pilgrimage- A General Definition, Its Excellence and Prerequisites./21587-fiqh-us-sunnah-volume-005-hajj-and-umrah-fiqh-5003a.html
     
  7. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    The Holy Spirit wasn't married to Mary when it knocked her up. According to the fairy tale Yeshua should have been barred from entering the temple and synagogues. Detueronomy 23:2
     
  8. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    Let's imagine that there is 'God', and 'God' loves all creation, and everything and everyone will be 'saved' in the end. In that scenario, all the religious dogma and commands only exist in order to persuade people to do, while in the world, what should be obvious anyway; i.e., treat each other like family.
     
  9. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I'm confused, the point of my post is that this wasn't about Jesus' conception in particular. Are you making some other point?
     
  10. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    I don't buy that either though I can see why people would. The reason I don't buy it is because the interventionist God intervenes in a very haphazard manner by intervening for someone to win a lottery ticket who might not need it as much to not intervening from causing a child to be sexually molested by a so called religious "authority".

    Wyrd often does that; he raises odd points that sometimes adds nothing to the conversation, and sometimes encourages people to look at things from a different angle. Half of the time he annoys me and half of the time he amuses me.
     
  11. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    You know, you atheists should get together before asking us dumb questions so you can decide what God's motivation is, it would save a lot of time.
     
  12. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

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    Chinese proverb: He who asks questions is stupid. He who does not ask questions stays stupid.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe that your question to Christians has been answered in the
    near death experience of Ms. Ariela Solsol Pereira and verified in the NDE of
    little Colton Burpo.

    I give some quotations from her book in posts #1 and #2 here about her meetings with
    the children she had aborted before her NDE:

    Near death experiencer shown no condemnation for women who choose....


    I feel that Colton's NDE confirms what was shown to Ms. Ariela Solsol
    because he met his sister who had died as a foetus because of a miscarriage.



     
  14. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    There is no :Get together" for atheists. They are all different. The only thing in common, is they do not believe in a God.
     
  15. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    Mmm, not quite. You don't hit the Muslim jackpot unless you die killing infidels. That's when you get 72 doe-eyed virgins.

    http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=565

    And yet the Western liberals claim terrorism is about jobs, not Islam.
     
  16. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    LOL.
     
  17. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    Actually the 72 virgins is something mocked by the west.
    It shows up in one obscure hadieth.
    Muhammed told different stories to different people, and common numbers are
    1
    2
    Any number
    70
    72
    over 3000
    Some have transparent legs
    Some are 60 feet tall

    All re-grow their virginity, just so you can do it again.

    And for the alternative lifestyle, you can have 28 boys

    (QURAN 76:19): "And round about them will (serve) boys of everlasting youth. If you see them, you would think them scattered pearls."

    It is common in Arabic poetry to glorify homosexuality, take their famous poet Abu Nuwas:

    O the joy of sodomy!
    So now be sodomites, you Arabs.
    Turn not away from it--
    therein is wondrous pleasure.
    Take some coy lad with kiss-curls
    twisting on his temple
    and ride as he stands like some gazelle
    standing to her mate.
    A lad whom all can see girt with sword
    and belt not like your whore who has
    to go veiled.
    Make for smooth-faced boys and do your
    very best to mount them, for women are
    the mounts of the devils
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
  18. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It seems Theists need this get together FAR more as Atheists have one simple belief (not believing in these Gods) whereas you folks can't even agree on which one is real.
     
  19. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    Only the pedophilia kind. Adult homosexuality gets you thrown off a building or stoned to death.

    Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" - An account that is borrowed from the Biblical story of Sodom. Muslim scholars through the centuries have interpreted the "rain of stones" on the town as meaning that homosexuals should be stoned, since no other reason is given for the people's destruction. (Inexplicably, the story is also repeated in three other suras: 15:74, 27:58 and 29:40).

    https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/homosexuality.aspx
     
  20. yasureoktoo

    yasureoktoo Banned

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    Someone wrote a good article from a book he published, I'm going to try to find it.
    Muslims have a different view of exactly what is a homosexual, and banging boys does not qualify.
    A lot of activity of what we consider homosexual, is normal behavior for them, including sex with animals.
     
  21. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, they come to places like this, ask ridiculous questions, refuse to hear any answer that doesn't fit their preconceived notions, then make up their own answers. It would be a lot less fuss and bother if they'd just make up their own answers in the first place and leave us out of it.
     
  22. it's just me

    it's just me Well-Known Member

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    It may interest you to know that I don't believe people who obsess over God as much as atheists do are simply "non-believers".
     
  23. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My apologies....I guess I was confused by what I replied to.
    "
    it's just me said:
    You know, you atheists should get together before asking us dumb questions so you can decide what God's motivation is, it would save a lot of time."
     
  24. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A 'sin' is a breach of one of the Ten Commandments, which premarital sex is not (not necessarily, anyway). Pre-marital sex is certainly frowned upon by God, and can easily lead to sin, but in my understanding is not a sin in and of itself.

    Premarital sex as a sin is, imo, an invention of the establishment of religion for the purposes of social control.
     
  25. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was born outside of marriage. So he should have been barred from attending the temple and the synagogues per Deuteronomy 23:2.
     

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