Guns & Stand Your Ground victory. Got a problem with that? video included.

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Moi621, Jul 20, 2018.

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Do YOU support this Stand Your Ground example of lethal gun defense?

  1. Yes

    59 vote(s)
    60.8%
  2. No

    38 vote(s)
    39.2%
  1. leaulauzon

    leaulauzon Active Member

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    A few seconds? Is that a joke? He falls down and rolls. Less than 1 second later he's sitting, less than 1 second later he grabs his gun, 1 second later he aims at the "attacker". When was he dazed? You undertand what dazed means? Look at the video, look at the time it takes. You invented a story that isn't there.

    The evidence show that he wasn't dazed, unless you think you can be dazed for 0.5 second, something that would pretty much go against the definition of the word.

    And like I already said, you are lying when you say that the woman was exiting the car. She was already out. And the other man is completely irrelevent to this story considering it was obvious he wasn't with them and Drejka never had the time to consider him. You said he was dazed but had the time to scan his surrounding. Which one is it? You're being illogical.

    No once can convince a jury with the stand your ground law. That's not the point of this thread. So why are you talking about a jury? Did I say someone could convince a jury? Did someone say it?

    As for the reference, I couldn't find it. Maybe I didn't remember right, but what the Sheriff said shows that Drejka was thinking clearly : "He was focused on McLaughlin lower body, but couldn't see his hands." If you can manage to be "focused on the lower body" in 1 second while getting back up, you are not dazed.

    But what's the point? Even if he wasn't dazed, you would have the same opinion, right? So why are you arguing over that?
     
  2. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are more lessons than those.

    1. Don't park in a handicap parking spot unless you are handicapped.
    2. If you see someone parking illegally, mind your own ****ing business.
    3. Don't physically assault people who are merely pointing out that you're an *******.
    4. If you play stupid violent games, you'll eventually win a stupid violent prize.
     
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  3. leaulauzon

    leaulauzon Active Member

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    Then wait for the move... He doesn't have to get up right away. He has a gun pointed at him and the other guy has nothing... Who's in a position of strenght at that point? It seems you don't have enough real world experience to understand that if you have a gun pointed at a man 6 feet away, you have the advantage.

    McLaughlin was a "thug" without a weapon buy candies for his 5 years old while two other kids were waiting in the car...

    What would you do if you were inside a store and someone told you a man was screaming at a woman outside, and when you walked out you saw an angry man near your car, where your two kids are? Please tell me how nice you would be.

    By the way, I think that the shove was wrong, but I also think that calling someone a thug for shoving a menacing man away from his wife and children is weird, considering you think you can kill someone for pushing you. Shoving a menacing man doesn't seem less disproportionate than killing someone who shoves.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
  4. Ericb760

    Ericb760 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For those of you who think that this was a good shoot: How do you feel about a man with a history of harassing other drivers over the very same offense being the shooter? Does it not give you pause that the shooter actively created the situation in which he killed a man?

    Do you believe that the shooter was calmly explaining to the woman in the car why she was illegally parked? Doubtful, considering other reports of the man harassing "illegal" parkers in the past.

    Gun ownership carries tremendous responsibility. This shooter has demonstrated, to me at least, that he used a constitutional right to bolster himself in case things went bad while confronting illegal parking violators, a task that he was not officially sanctioned to perform.

    I guess what I'm asking is this: As a gun rights advocate, are you sure that you really want this incident to represent to the public why you believe Americans should be armed?

    I am a gun owner and strident 2nd amendment support. This shoot leaves a bad taste in my mouth, even if the State of Florida exonerates the shooter.
     
  5. not2serious

    not2serious Well-Known Member

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    I could handle situations like that, you on the other hand have apparently no such experience or your would know better. First, my wife would NOT have gotten out of the car. Her best safety was to remain in the vehicle, it offered protection. Second, the thug boyfriend could have placed himself between the man verbally chewing her, with hands held in the "hold it a minute" pose and cooled the old coot down. The last thing you want to do is up the anti, and deliver a surprise push/punch hard enough to knock the man to the ground. Finally, when the guy brandished the weapon, again the thug could have put his hands up (he had time) and say "I don't want no trouble". Then if the man on the ground shot, then I would have a different opinion. But the thug was facing a new threat and deciding how he could attack. Again, been and seen too much in life in Knife and gun clubs to realize what might happen next, rather than your inexperienced belief in the Andy Griffith Mayberry Ideals.
    . Some people are very dangerous in offense, some are dangerous in the defense.
    You assault someone, expect the worst, because you can be sure that occasionally you will wake the sleeping giant.
     
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  6. leaulauzon

    leaulauzon Active Member

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    We know Drejka was yelling, the Sheriff said so. And we know that someone went inside the store saying a man was yelling at a woman, and that's why McLaughlin went out.

    But it doesn't matter if he created the situation. That's the beauty of Stand Your Ground. You can create a situation, feel scared for your life (as if how someone feel can be proven without a reasonnable doubt) and kill someone. And some people can't see how that can't be problematic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2018
  7. not2serious

    not2serious Well-Known Member

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    You again are the "blame the rape victim" for wearing provocative clothing every day. Things went bad when a thug decided he would be THE MAN for his woman, who was never in any danger.
     
  8. Ericb760

    Ericb760 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am doing no such thing.

    Question: Does the shooter represent law enforcement in regards to parking violations? No. The answer is NO.

    He had no business whatsoever confronting the driver. THAT WAS NOT HIS RESPONSIBILITY.
     
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  9. leaulauzon

    leaulauzon Active Member

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    You are arguing things that I never claimed... That's what I said and you didn't even bother with it because you know that the guy on the ground was in a position of strenght once he takes his gun:

    "Then wait for the move... He doesn't have to get up right away. He has a gun pointed at him and the other guy has nothing... Who's in a position of strenght at that point? It seems you don't have enough real world experience to understand that if you have a gun pointed at a man 6 feet away, you have the advantage."

    And here's what I wrote at the end : "By the way, I think that the shove was wrong, but I also think that calling someone a thug for shoving a menacing man away from his wife and children is weird, considering you think you can kill someone for pushing you. Shoving a menacing man doesn't seem less disproportionate than killing someone who shoves."

    1- A menacing man is yelling at your at a wife with two child in the car. The husband shoves him, a disproportionate action, but he couldn't have known that the yelling man was not a threat to his wife. You say that he's a thug.

    2- A menacing man pushes another one on the ground. The man on the ground take out a gun and shoots him, a disproportionate action, but he couldn't know that the other man wasn't a threat. You say that he's right.

    It seems like you have a bias.

    And that's without considering that McLaughlin was backing away.

    You say had time to put his hands up and say "I don't want not trouble" in about 2-3 seconds with someone pointing a gun at him? Is that a joke? Now I just think you are a liar with all that "world experience", because someone with world experience would know that 2 seconds isn't enough to do all that, even more when someone suddenly pulls a gun on you.

    I thought that a gun was a better weapon than bare hands, but I guess not, because the guy with the gun was still the person in danger. What's the point of owning a gun if having one in your hands makes you weaker than someone with nothing?
     
  10. leaulauzon

    leaulauzon Active Member

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    How could he have known she wasn't?

    People are not saying that you deserve to get shoved for yelling at someone. Just that you also don't deserve to get shot for shoving someone.

    I'm consequent. I think that if you go to 2 on the aggression scale, you don't deserve to be answered with 6 and if you go to 6 you don't deserve to be answered with 10. You, on the other, think that one of them is being a thug and the other one is being in his right.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
  11. not2serious

    not2serious Well-Known Member

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    First, a private citizen CAN speak up when he has a cause. He offered no violence, just crewing her asss out for parking there.

    The problem occurs when mr thug attacks UNPROVOKED another person FOR WHAT EVER REASON. I am certain he has done so many times before in his life.
    Your statement says it all that you DO blame the rape victim.
    "She had no Business whatsoever wearing skimpy cloths. It was not the rapist responsibility to control himself!
    See, you are blaming the victim for being raped.
     
  12. not2serious

    not2serious Well-Known Member

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    How did he know she was?

    Wow, I thought blaming the rape on the victims provocative cloths had gone out of style, apparently not.
     
  13. not2serious

    not2serious Well-Known Member

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    The guy was a thug, he attacked another person physically without justification. It was not just a push, and the guy saunders up, not excited, then BAM, a literal "two punch" shove. His intent was to attack the man and he covered his moves well, which means he has probably done it before. This time, he knocks an older guy to the ground but he runs up against someone who was in fear, and he gets shot. Give the thug the Darwin Award! It is a simple lesson, don't assault someone and not expect bad things to happen.
     
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  14. leaulauzon

    leaulauzon Active Member

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    He didn't know, that was my point. Like Drejka didn't know if he was in danger of dying. Thinking it was sufficient for you. Does it matter to you that Drejka didn't KNOW for sure? No. Why does it matter when it's the other guy?

    Rape victim is such a bad analogy... I can't believe I'm losing my time arguing with someone who would use such an analogy. As if dressing sexy and getting raped is the same as yelling at someone and getting shoved. There's nothing alike in the two situations... WTF...

    And you missed the next sentence where I said "People are not saying that you deserve to get shoved for yelling at someone. Just that you also don't deserve to get shot for shoving someone." You rather ignore it I guess and keep saying your incredibly bad analogy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
  15. not2serious

    not2serious Well-Known Member

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    Again, you have no experience in this. You imagine a Andy Griffith response and people thinking that way. Aint so pilgrim.
     
  16. not2serious

    not2serious Well-Known Member

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    Sorry you lack the capability to see the parallel. It is exactly the same, just different players for different reasons. You think the rape victim is at fault, and the initial none threatening and nonviolent person is at fault.
     
  17. leaulauzon

    leaulauzon Active Member

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    I think they were both wrong, even though I wouldn't say "thugs" because it shows your bias to use a term related to criminals to talk about a man pushing a menacing man away from his wife and kids. Even though it's wrong, thugs is clearly too strong a word. But they were both wrong. Unlike you, I'm consequent in my thinking. I'm not condemning one guy for pushing it too far while congratulating another for pushing it too far.
     
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  18. Ericb760

    Ericb760 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If a woman intentionally wears provocative clothing and then struts around town with the intent of causing a disturbance and getting herself raped, just so she can then use lethal force to stop her would be rapist. she IS NOT an innocent victim of a crime.
     
  19. leaulauzon

    leaulauzon Active Member

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    No I don't think the victim should be raped and I don't think Drejka should have been pushed. I never claimed either of those things. You not only make a bad analogy, yelling at someone Vs dressing sexy, but it seems like you can't quite read clearly and decide to just make things up. When one starts to make things up to push his point, that person shows that he isn't worth arguing as his point is more important than truth.

    EDIT : As for your yelling at someone Vs dressing sexy. Yelling at someone is a form of violence, verbal, but still. It is related to shoving. That's why most fights starts with yelling, there's an escalation : yelling, shoving, punching... killing. Dressing sexy isn't related to rape that way no matter how you want to look at it: dressing sexy, raping... If you think that dressing sexy is to raping what yelling is to shoving, you should go see a psychologist.

    It doesn't mean that you deserve to be shoved for yelling, if that's what you were getting at, then just say it. It's not that complicated to understand. You don't need an analogy for that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
  20. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    That could work!
     
  21. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The citizen killed a man to save his own life.

    Another citizen assaulted a man and died soon after.

    Thats not something I'd ever want to experience.

    Cant even imagine what he's going through, and the same to the "wife" in the video.

    Things aren't always as we think they are.

    And often, its very unpleasant things we choose not to think about.

    Nobody is happy about this.

    But its reality, even in 2018, even in America.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
  22. Nonsensei436

    Nonsensei436 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I know everything you just condescendingly suggested I didn’t. The diff fence between you and I is that I have actually devoted at least one ****ing brain cell to analyzing the information.

    The law says if the shooter has a reasonable fear. But it does not define what reasonable fear means nor does it offer any provisions, methods or standards to use in determining whether or not the shooters fear was reasonable.

    In the end it comes down to the shooters word on his own perceptions. Don’t hold your breath waiting for a shooter to admit they were not experiencing what they consider reasonable fear.

    What I said is exactly the bald faced truth. This law allows people to maliciously use it to commit unprosecutable murders. In Florida if a man insults your wife and you take a swing at him, he gets to ****ing kill you with his gun and he will not be prosecuted.

    Because nobody can PROVE that he wasn’t afraid for his life in his own mind and you did initiate the physical altercation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
  23. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    So if someone is using a knife to try to rape you, you can only use a knife to prevent them?
     
  24. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    Only the uneducated think all your problems are solved just because you have a gun.
     
  25. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    Then you should probably keep your hands to yourself.
     

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