Household Income

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by LafayetteBis, Aug 30, 2018.

  1. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    This history of nationalised rail is pretty bad.

    Poor services, late and dirty trains. Endless strikes and cancelled trains.
    No investment.
    The money all got spent on the workers.

    Resulting in long travel times. Unreliable vehicles and most notable no track replacement resulting in several disasters and deaths on a mass scale.
    This in the country that invented the damn railroads.

    **** off British Rail. Don't come back. Ever.
    Journey time has halved.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
  2. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

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    Utter rubbish !

    Journey times today are significantly longer under British Rail, and both subsidies and fares are far, far higher in real terms today. The disasters you refer to (Paddington, Potters Bar) were a direct result of the way the network was privatised and of course, rail safety in the UK has been, compared to other forms of land transport, excellent.

    British Rail was chronically underfunded for decades and arguably never really recovered from WWII where the network was worked to near collapse without any investment to repair the network post-war.

    Regarding journey times, I have direct personal experience of the lengthening journey times, and worse punctuality. When I started commuting from Bristol to London, the line was operated by British rail and the scheduled journey time to London from Bristol Parkway was 1h20m - 1h25m depending on the number of stops and the trains were reliably punctual. There was even on direct train that took 1h10m.

    Today the quickest service is 1h30m and punctuality is poor, especially at peak times - and for around £15k a year season ticket just for that route.

    Our European neighbours can show us how to run a publicly-owned railway. An annual pass to the whole of the Deutsche Bahn is under £4k annually for standard class and that would cover all rail travel not just your commuter route.
     
  3. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

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    The reasons I support privatisation of gas, telecoms and electricity is that there is opportunity for competition. For example, I pay a premium to get electricity entirely from renewable sources. I wouldn't force my choice on anyone else.
     
  4. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Yep, typical New Labour. Stuff fuel poverty, as long as I can pretend I'm saving the world...
     
  5. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I beg to differ. The competition would require that the single-source of any such service (electricity or gas) comes from the very same provider in most cases. There are NOT multiple atomic-energy plants competing with one another to supply electricity to the general public.

    The notion of "competition" simply does not work any many such areas where provision is established, which is the reason they were made "state or national government services" in most countries.

    Where competition works is in New Outlets - for instance, electricity from solar panels or wind farms. These providers do compete with established electrical energy distributors. (But, if you look at from where the money comes for such alternative-supplies of electricity, you might be dismayed to see that it is from existing electricity suppliers!)

    PS: And yet another facet of the same question, this time relating to the Internet. Please show one bonafide example of any company successfully competing with Facebook. The Internet is a very different services-world indeed!
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
  6. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That will change as the cost-of-establishing the renewable-source is covered and real-competition institutes itself. Geographically that is easier to do in Europe than the US, because of the comparative great difference in territorial size of each. Still, it all depends upon some highly variable "variables". Neither the wind nor the sun is always available, whereas atomic energy is almost always producing electricity ...
     
  7. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'm cross-subsidizing the rest of the market but carry on with your hatred.
     
  8. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

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    Nuclear is the one exception, though that may change, but for every other generation source, there are multiple generators.

    And regarding Facebook, they are losing traffic to Twitter and Instagram. Apparently only fogies like me use Facebook these days...
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
  9. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    So you think you're reducing fuel poverty? Wow, love the arrogance!
     
  10. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

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    I'm making electricity (marginally) less expensive for other people by paying more for renewable energy.

    Seems at least I'm doing something practical now. What are you doing today to reduce fuel poverty ?
     
  11. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Where I live, there is no such thing as Fuel Poverty. The French embarked upon a massive program to replace coal/gas fired electricity plants in the 1980s. Today, almost 85% of its electricity is atomic-based.

    And the Far-left Nerds are not happy with that either - they want every house in France to have its own electric wind-mill!!! (What is true however is the cost-reduction in solar-power PV-panels and partial reimbursement of the total-cost by the French government.)

    France has also offered national rebates on any hybrid-driven car to reduce pollution. Tell that to your mindless PotUS and see how he responds. President Macron of France spent three days in the White House with Donald Dork to convince him NOT TO RENOUNCE the Paris Agreement. But DD will undo anything Obama has done.

    DD has an obsession as regards Obama. (It's not the same but is akin to "penis envy" ... ;^)
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
  12. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    No you're not. You're paying a premium to puff your chest out and pretend you're saving the world.

    The impact on fuel poverty is zero. Happy for you to refer to a study that shows otherwise. Good luck!
     
  13. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

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    What are you doing Class Warrior ?
     
  14. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

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    Ar you sure ?

    Are you sure that there is no-one struggling to pay their energy bill ?
     
  15. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I'm supporting a Labour Party committed to ending fuel poverty. It's through solidarity that we can change things, a reality lost to New Labour.

    You forgot to present a source that confirms your preening reduces fuel poverty. Am I to assume a source won't be provided?
     
  16. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

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    Right, so nothing actually practical at this point in time, just agitating in the hope that a Labour Party-led government is elected in several years time and that the Labour Party government is effective in addressing fuel poverty. Meanwhile, I'm making taking practical steps by using less energy and by buying comparatively more expensive renewables.
     
  17. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The French complain about everything. But not their electricity-bill. And nobody "struggles" to pay for it, because France has one of the lowest costs (due to atomic-energy).

    See that factually corroborated here. So, in fact, looking at that chart, you pay a wee-bit less than I do in France (or for most of Europe as well).

    Why are you complaining ... ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
  18. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ten years ago, I installed a heat-pump.

    It works just fine, and my cost of heating is affordable ...
     
  19. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you know that it's a good-idea to quote the person to whom you are responding in an on-line "debate" forum ... ?

    PS: Btw, I would not vote for the hairbrained Labor Party in the UK in its present form. Corbyn has to go!
     
  20. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Practical steps? It's like wearing a cardigan and thinking you're solving world poverty.

    You're doing nothing. You've tacitly admitted that by dodging my repeated request for evidence.
     
  21. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

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    You claimed that there was no fuel poverty in France - I've yet to see you support that claim.

    Reiver is the one complaining about UK fuel poverty, so you'd better take that up with him/her
     
  22. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

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    The question was directed at Reiver - but well done. I looked at the economics of both ground source and air source heat pumps but the sums did not add up for me.
     
  23. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

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    If I'm buying the expensive renewable electricity, it drives down the price for everyone else - stands to reason, it's basic economics.
     
  24. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

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    I did quote the person posting.

    If you have a person on ignore however, none of their posts will appear - even if quoted by another person. Do you have Reiver on ignore ?
     
  25. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    That's drivel, not basic economics! There is absolutely no reason for prices to be driven down. Your behaviour is irrelevant, even if supply/demand did operate in these non-competitive markets (and it doesn't).
     

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