Medicaid healthcare for illegal immigrants

Discussion in 'Health Care' started by wgabrie, Jun 7, 2018.

  1. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Not the operative (pun intended) word ... EMERGENCY.

    That means a literal life/death situation, which is time critical. It does not mean a sprained ankle, the flu, a bleeding nose, or a stomach bug.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  2. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Good point. . .which increases the need to find a workable answer to covering health care for everyone in our country like every other advanced nation in the world does already.
     
  3. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Not so as Mexico has universal health care:


    upload_2018-10-17_11-16-38.jpeg
    Public healthcare has an elaborate provisioning and delivery system instituted by the Mexican government. ... The IMSS program is a tripartite system funded equally by the employee, the private employer, and the federal government. There are 58 million people covered through IMSS.
    Healthcare in Mexico - Wikipedia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Mexico
     
  4. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Your only obligation is to find a solution for your CITIZENS. Obviously.

    America does not have access to a money tree, and is therefore not able to treat the world for their sprained ankles. Unless ... wait, perhaps you have a money tree? Do you?

    PS: I live in a nation which has had free universal healthcare for decades. BUT, it is only available to citizens. There is no possible way we could sustain it if it was suddenly made available to the world.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  5. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your basic point, but would suggest the obvious exception of providing medical care for ANYONE involved in an emergency, life-threatening situation. In such circumstances, treatment should be immediate and based on humane concerns rather than health care system qualifications.
     
  6. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly how it's always worked, as I have stated clearly multiple times. ONLY time critical life/death conditions will be treated (if the person is a foreign national). Anything else must be paid for.

    So, if you're a foreign national and can't pay for your medical care, you should probably think about going home.
     
  7. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    There are of course foreign nationals LEGALLY residing in the U.S. Some form of program should be made available to them for affordable health care. Perhaps they could buy in to the national program that covers citizens, or private insurance companies could provide coverage (but at an affordable rate). I don't agree that they should be forced to consider returning to their home country due to health care access here.
     
  8. TrumpTrain

    TrumpTrain Banned

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    I think you're on crack
     
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  9. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    If they are FOREIGN NATIONALS, then they are visitors (however long that visit may last). They are not America's responsibility. So why on earth should Americans subsidize (which must happen, for anything to be 'affordable') foreigners? Does Italy help pay for your health insurance? Or is it Armenia? Which nation subsidizes your healthcare?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018
  10. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Saying someone is not deserving of needed healthcare because they aren't American is contrary to my inner values. Nationalities aren't natural divisions of humanity. Nationalities are self-imposed and arbitrary. We are ALL human, and of equal value as defined by nature. I would rather care for the health needs of foreign visitors rather than find some convenient but arbitrary excuse for practicing inhumanity toward them for no good reason. In the end, we are all responsible for each other--world wide. We are all part of the HUMAN family, and that outranks nationality.
     
  11. Matt22yuc

    Matt22yuc Active Member

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    Or we could pay for nobody’s healthcare.
     
  12. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    You promote keeping the selfishness we've always had regarding public healthcare. Hopefully we're moving beyond that attitude as a nation. The Earth desperately needs more love & compassion. I hope you can join us in that trend. :)
     
  13. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    We tried that for some. Remember the bankruptcies and homlessness it created? Of course you don't. You don't think about consequences.
     
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  14. Matt22yuc

    Matt22yuc Active Member

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    Kumbiah. No I don’t think it’s compassionate to take money by the threat of force through the government and give it to others. I promote promote personal responsibility.
     
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  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    My 'inner values' insist that all people should have a late model car, an iphone, and high quality multi-vitamins. Let's have these things made available to every person who sets foot on American soil.

    I'm trying to demonstrate that your fantasy world might feel nice and huggy inside, but the reality is beyond absurd. Far, far beyond. If you want to help anyone (and I'm sure you do), then you MUST be judicious with your limited resources. Spend 'em all in spastic fashion, in response to some knee jerk emotional urge, will ultimately hurt far more people than it will help.
     
  16. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Sure thing. But when that 'love & compassion' costs money or resources, we cannot simply keep handing it out without qualification. Are you able to keep spending your money once it's all gone? What would happen if you spent your entire paycheck on the first day, because you saw lots of things you wanted to spend it on? Would you be able to pay your rent three days later? I can't believe I have to say this :/
     
  17. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

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    LOL Mexico's population is 130 million. They have a worse uninsured rate than even the US does.
     
  18. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Of course you do. Those who have money generally don't spend a lot of time being concerned for those who don't. Only an isolated few break the mold & express compassion for those less fortunate. Our Declaration of Independence made a revolutionary & quite profound statement when it said, "all men are created equal." It's an ideal many--perhaps most--of us are still struggling to live up to, even in our minds. But it's an ideal worthy of the effort. Some of us believe it should be broadened to read, "all humans are created equal." I'm one of those. Clearly, we see all sorts of inequities all around us. Some are financially wealthy, some poor; some are physically attractive, some not; some are blessed with good health, others struggle every day of their lives just to stay reasonably comfortable; some live long lives, some very short; some experience great success in pursuing their dreams in life, some don't. Yet, we could say--or should say--that every one of us has value as a human being, and that value should never be questioned or challenged by those more fortunate. The development of humane behaviors--love, acceptance, compassion, caring, sharing, etc., are more important for each of us to pursue than any other goal. Learning to love unconditionally is the highest standard we can aspire to in life. Wealth can become a powerful obstacle to attaining or even pursuing that goal. But, there are wealthy persons that provide examples that it doesn't have to be. :)
     
  19. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, but if 2% of the global human population didn't own & control 98% of all wealth (property & money) in the world, then we'd have enough to uplift the lives of everyone living. I'm not against individual wealth, but I support some sort of societal upper limit per person and/or family. The existing inequity extremes promote and sustain conflict of all sorts and types world wide. Redistributing that wealth in a more thoughtful & fair way could eliminate much of that conflict & make a better, happier, more contented world. I don't pretend such a feat wouldn't be humanity's greatest challenge to achieve.
     
  20. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    There's a large difference between giving everyone a late model car, an iphone & multi-vitamins, or providing access to general healthcare as a right of citizenship. Your suggestions are merely ownership of objects; healthcare is a question of life & death issues. They are NOT co-equals. National healthcare is not a fantasy. Many other countries around the world provide it for their people, and do so at less expense than we endure here for less coverage. Somehow, we manage to afford spending more on the American Military Industrial Complex, than the next nine largest militaries on the planet, combined. Why can we afford such extreme spending for new and better ways to kill people, but can't afford to provide descent health care for our own citizens? It's not that we can't afford it. It's a question of values & priorities. It's a question of making the right choices.
     
  21. Matt22yuc

    Matt22yuc Active Member

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    We have very different world views. I think that you don’t understand what it means when we say that all men are created equal. What it means is that all human beings are born with natural rights being life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I believe that we as human beings should have the right to do whatever we want so long as we do not infringe upon the rights of others. This ultimately leads to the idea that we all own our bodies and therefore the compensation of our work is our own, it is our property.
    In America all human beings should have the opportunity to pursue whatever goals and make whatever decisions in life that they want to do. However they also live with the consequences of the decisions they make, be that good or bad. From reading your posts it appears that you don’t believe in equal opportunity but in equal outcome. The problem with this is it infringes upon the rights of everyone. You take money from people that is their property and will give it to others. I understand that you believe that this is “compassionate” and “loving”, and probably is better for the “greater good”. However it has a larger negative impact on society by restricting everyone’s liberty and rights to they’re own hard work and property. Taking the money by threat of force is theft, regardless of if you think it is better for more people, it’s still theft.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  22. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Your post sounds like you didn't really read my post that you were responding to. Your conclusion that I "don't believe in equal opportunity but in equal outcome" is totally wrong. But I'm making the point that although we have equal RIGHT to equal opportunity, many personal situations in our individual lives plays havoc with our access to those opportunities. We don't have equal access to opportunities. As a liberal, I promote the idea that we use government and other institutions, as well as become personally sensitive to those blocked opportunities and extend a helping hand to those affected for long periods of time. I'm not suggesting permanent handouts. I'm suggesting short term financial aid, medical aid, or education or training in some profession that could help those temporarily stuck, unstick themselves. The problem with my ideas is that many who have wealth are so self-serving and un-compassionate that they refuse to offer help themselves and actively resist those around them who DO want to help. Instead of seeing that help as a good thing for themselves & the society around them, they decide to protect their own interests exclusively without regard to the sufferings of others. Liberals care about the general welfare. Conservatives care about their own welfare. I'm a liberal. Hate me if you wish.
     
  23. Matt22yuc

    Matt22yuc Active Member

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    This pretty much sums it all up. You think people that don’t give away they’re money to others are greedy and selfish. Therefore you think you get to go steal that money and give it to other people anyways.

    It’s not a matter of love or compassion but rather envy.

    And by the way I’m not a conservative and I don’t care that your a liberal.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  24. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    You do understand that wealth is optional, in the First World, right? If you dislike it so much, don't do it. Easy. Leave that 10 billion you didn't make, in the system for the 'poor'. Consider it your contribution to equity.

    In the meantime, let's work with what is. Quite a few nations (including mine) have absolutely equitable high quality universal healthcare. NO ONE will suffer (from lack of healthcare) due to poverty. America could do this too, but you'll never be able to do it if you start handing out all your tax dollars to foreign nationals.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  25. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Yes, like I said, I live in a nation which has had national healthcare for decades. I know it works very very well, and so do 99% of people who live with national healthcare. The few complainers are merely spoiled brats, who (for reasons of narcissism or some other similar driver) expect to be personally catered too. And they have the option of taking out private health insurance and using private hospitals, if their ego is more important than the quality of their care (private hospitals in this country aren't very good).

    I can't explain to you why America isn't doing it. To me, it's the single most objectionable thing about your nation. It's literally barbaric, and is many decades behind the modern world.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
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