yet another coal mine in WV closing

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by JakeStarkey, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    No most likeLy not. Just trying humor.
     
  2. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Did you mean this one?
    https://www.thespec.com/news-story/4190319-u-s-steel-natural-gas-process-will-soon-replace-coke/

    The industry has looked for something better than coke for quite some time. When I was much younger, I worked in a steel re-rolling mill that had switched from coal to gas. The coal was dirty, time and labor were costly, and the waste was a constant headache. The coal was brought in by railroad cars, unloaded, crushed to almost a powder, and blown into the furnace. The soot was unbearable. Gas was cleaner and didn't require all the time and labor to get it into the furnace.

    Smelting was usually done with electricity. Again, so much easier and cleaner.

    Making pig iron is a relative rarity in this country, so the amount of coal used for that is negligible.
     
  3. Cubed

    Cubed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That would be the one. Lots of 'Might possibly' and 'some say' and 'may be'. It's not done yet, and while I applaud the shift, it hasn't been completed yet.
     
  4. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    An acceptable level of polution is the smallest level achievable that still allows societies requirements to be met.
     
  5. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    That would have continued?????

    What are you talking about?

    No one is preventing research into clean coal. The Federal government (under the Obama Administration, BTW,) subsidizes the research. Yet, the plant that was supposed to be the showcase for clean coal technology, has been all but abandoned, an expensive white elephant, the not even a huge increase in local electric rates could cure.

    History is littered with the tales of folks who wasted their time and effort trying to perfect the technologies of the past.

    Once the cost and energy storage issues are solved (the one is close to on par, even now), the future belongs to renewable. And the tipping point will come upon us quickly when it happens.
     
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  6. Denizen

    Denizen Well-Known Member

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    Germany has a few days a year when they use zero fossil fuels for power generation.
     
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  7. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When Obama destroyed the coal industry, and used Regulatory Agencies, rather than voters, to make the use of coal cost prohibitive, we shut the door on discoveries with that abundant energy source.



    So with no market in coal, why would anyone pour precious resources into R&D with it?

    As to renewables, do you have a clue what is required in both materials and space to store the energy those renewables produce?

    I believe we should be exploiting all energy sources. Ignoring coal is a foolish emotionally based folly of the left.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  8. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    When you're cold, really cold, you're going to combust something. The first few waves of people who got land grants on the great plains would twist up prairie grass and burn it in a pan or kettle in a sod hut during harsh winters. It wasn't much relief and didn't last long, but it was something, and something is better than nothing.

    Combustion and hunting are the answers to man's greatest problems.
     
  9. TexMexChef

    TexMexChef Well-Known Member

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    Because they were trying to make the point to coal workers that coal jobs are not coming back and job training in the alternate energy fields is where the future is taking America.

    We have a finite amount of dollars. Holding out hope that coal jobs are coming back is futile and counter productive.

    Sometimes the truth is hurtful, but sometimes we need to put on our big boy pants and hear the truth.

    subsidies for coal industry should end and those dollars be put into job training and medical cost as Obama did...as Clinton would have...as Trump has kept going.

    Trump has not ended Obama era job training programs for displaces coal workers. ACA is still helping Coal workers in WV
    Trump has promised to bring back coal jobs. That is all he has given coal workers...a promise.

    If it were not for Obama, they would be in a hell of a lot more trouble.
     
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  10. TexMexChef

    TexMexChef Well-Known Member

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    Regulations had already been in place for generations.

    Since Nixon created the EPA in the 70s

    Municipalities have upgraded their utilities production and coal fired plants to regulations that were in place way before Obama.
     
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  11. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    All of these assertions are false.

    The Clean Coal Initiative did make it into Obama era. Now, in typical fashion, Trump is trying to take credit for it.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...opening/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.01fc27ca9eb7

    Not that it matters. The electric power industry is not interested in coal. It's expensive, capital intensive, and dirty. All three are significant disadvantages in the energy markets of the future.

    But if you want to cling to the idea that we should be investing in the past, try writing your next post by the light of a whale oil lamp.
     
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  12. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And how are those "retraining" programs working out?

    It is foolish to walk away from an abundant energy source while we continue to work on fixing the serious deficiencies in current alternative energy sources.
     
  13. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The EPA was weaponized during the Obama Administration as a means of circumventing the legislative process and effect social justice objectives via regulatory agency fiat.

    The regulations that shut down the coal industry were not in place prior to the Obama Administration.
     
  14. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    False?

    Which ones?
     
  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Keeping hanging on to outdated technologies is a good way to create a backward evolving economy

    America heading for third world status at breakneck speed
     
  16. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    This is nonsense. You keep trying to recycle it.

    The EPA exists for a social purpose. Clean air and clean water.

    It does not exist to be run by and for coal lobbyist, even if Trump thinks it should be.

    And your assertion that Obama regulation "shut down" the coal industry is not only false, but it is baseless as well. But the coal industry has invested a lot of money in billboard all over West Virginia that blame Obama. After all, why bother the guys you just laid off with facts, when you have a convenient bogey man!
     
  17. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    Yup, Trump's idea of making America great. Embrace the industries and policies of the 19th century. That's guaranteed to work great in the 21st.

    But all the little Archie Bunker's believe it.
     
  18. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, that's why the President was elected. To stop the left in it's quest to turn the US into 3rd World Status.

    That did appear to be the Globalist's objective.
     
  19. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When you've learned something about the EPA under Obama, we can discuss it.

    You might look into the EPA's Environmental Justice program Obama had it initiate and see how that squares with your claim.
     
  20. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    Some of these flat earth types actually DO believe that.

    There was some long discredited Soviet era science that claimed the oil was generated naturally deep in the bowels of the earth., No natural evidence has ever been found to substantiate such a theory.

    None the less, it made the rounds of the right wing trash blogs four or five years ago., And the sheep believed it.
     
  21. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    Only in the paranoid imaginations of the parochial and fearful American right wing.
     
  22. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    Environmental justice has been an issue since the Love Canal scandal 40 years ago.
     
  23. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was close to Love Canal when last at Niagara Falls, A tiny area compared to all the noise it generated. If you walk the perimeter, it is merely 2.6 miles. All the way around in other words.
     
  24. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I date it further back. We here in the SF Bay area once had to deal with the stench that came off the Bay. Cities dumped their refuse from toilets into the Bay. So it was Government polluting the Bay. We got sick of it and governments cured the problem. Later on, Democrats took over.

    https://www.npr.org/2011/12/28/143857342/60-years-after-leaving-porpoises-again-play-in-sf-bay

    Harbor Porpoises came back

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
  25. ocean515

    ocean515 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ok. And then there is reality.....
     

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