Not sure it’s an irony so much as an inevitability BUT what makes you think pollution, global warming., population explosion and the other plagues we’ve unleashed on the planet can’t bring socialism etc to it’s knees as well ?
I agree in part D. A strong Labor is a great advantage to the country. We need a strong Labor right now, as we are seeing a dangerous shift in employment and pay. However what we have right now is a weak team of trigger fingers, who live by the idea that many minorities make for a majority. The fools don’t realise that they already had it but they traded it away in favour of what they believe is a classier set of voters. You hear Labor banging on continuously about how Liberal voters are flocking to the extremity parties. They’re not the only voters looking elsewhere. Perhaps that is the case in the cities, where Shotens gaze seems to end, but out here in the regions just as many blue collar died in the wool Labor voters have fled their much loved party through lack of love and understanding and headed to the same parties, hence why the Libs can not rely on these parties for preferences. As we have seen. If Labor do win this election, and as Garry said it is theirs to lose, they need to address employment. Currently more and more employees are being employed under casual rates or in some industries as sub contractors. I can understand Why business is happy to do this, but it is not right and will have a big bearing on quality of life in years to come. This is a huge topic right in the bread basket for Shorten, yet we don’t hear a peep? For me this exemplifies the disintegration of core Labor fundamentals. This is why the once strongest party in the country now has to rely on Green preferences to get the job done.
There’s one political puzzle I can’t solve. I live in rural Tasmania. Talking with local farmers the vast majority are fully aware of the daily evidence of climate change and are scared silly where it’s going to end. They accept carbon dioxide and methane (cow farts!) pollution etc as proven culprits. In general listening to their view of the world you’d think they’d vote Green but they have a peculiar loathing for the Greens describing them in such terms as ‘A bunch of mad hippies’. The other puzzle is they have little or no faith in the National Party. My neighbour remarking ’The Nationals are so far up the Libs arse they can’t see daylight.’ What the hell is going on ?
Greens are socialists more so than environmentalists these days. They use environmentalism as a guise for more radical socialist policy. We have the only environmental party in the world that does not have a population sustainability policy. Enough said for me. They are fake. The farmers do well not to trust them, they are not the farmers friend. Having said that, we should all be environmentalists. We should all try and live more sustainably, and be more aware of human impact on our environment, but there has to be balance. It is fine for the wealthy elite Greens to spruik demands upon the majority, and I may listen the day they ride a bike or walk to parliament dressed in a second hand ensemble, not Di Natale Amani, but most of their policy is thin in regards to future costs to the poorer demographic of our society. They need to learn that most people do not think like them. They are not “mad hippies” anymore. They are cunning socialists.
What you say of the Greens is true of the Sydney lot but not so of most I’ve had dealings with in Tasmania and Victoria. They are however a very mixed and peculiar bunch, some utterly unrealistic utopians, some wooly thinking new age aura massaging nongs and a few grounded machiavellian political realists. I’ve had discussions about this with Bob Brown who was a near neighbour until recently. He’s puzzled himself as where the party is heading. I wouldn’t be concerned about this if any of the other parties had a real sense the planet is fast going down the gully trap (anyone old enough here to know what one of them is?). The influx of socialists in disguise wouldn’t worry me so much either ( my thinking is left of centre anyhow) if they weren’t the kind trying to take over the Sydney branch who appear to be rabid Trotskyites of some kind. Forgotten the name of the woman who was their figure head but she’s a mad as a hatter. As to anything like a population sustainability program I’m not aware of any party in Australia even beginning to think along those lines. For some reason the idea of the population bomb so often talked about in the 70’s and 80’s has totally vanished off the political scene. Never mind, mother nature is about to take care of that problem in a very dramatic way if we don’t start facing a reality far more serious than any ideological arguments we may entertain ourselves with today. We are all dancing on the deck of the Titanic.
Can’t argue with much of that. I posted about the Greens struggle to decifer their own identity in another thread a while back, but upon thinking about it I don’t believe any of the parties truly know who they are. Perhaps they are waiting for the media to tell them who they are. The Libs are unsure, but they really need to cough up and accept they are now fully fledged Howard Conservatives as they are almost fully removed from their Menzian beginnings. An inevitable split looms. Labor. Gee where do you start? They have so many factions and threads now. This week they may be the old school hero of the battler, then next week they are the head of the wealthy latte “progressives”. Who knows? It is as though every Monday morning they spin the wheel. “ Tanya, listen, this week we represent the national association of Turd Pumpers. The Liberal Devils are trying to tax the rings out of their pumps. Quick call the Sydney Morning Herald and book the front page and get Snivels Bowen on Q&A to literally talk sh!t” I won’t bother with the popularity parties, other than to add that One Nation do in fact have a sketchy population sustainabilty policy. Mmm! I enjoyed the read, thankyou. As someone who sits slightly right of centre, wherever centre is these days, it is refreshing to have someone of the left who is able to discuss politics rationally without screaming “racism” or “discrimination”. All it takes is everybody to realise that not everyone thinks like ones self for rational debate to succeed.
Your description of Labour really gave me the giggles. As did your phrase ‘Perhaps they are waiting for the media to tell them who they are’. I’d add to that ‘Perhaps they’re waiting for the next poll to decide who they should pretend to be until the following poll’ But hey, that applies to the Liberals these days as well. Bob Menzies is rolling in his grave. And yes,a split looms but I suspect the first crack will be between the Nationals and the Libs, not the Randian lunatic right and the rest of them. The really unpredictable element though is Julie Bishop’s forthcoming revenge. (Hang onto your seat Slippery) I’m not sure what One Nation’s ‘Sketchy population sustainability policy’ is unless you mean ‘Whites only’? All this reminds me of that ancient Chinese curse I’ve quoted here before - - ‘May you live in interesting times’. Meanwhile vast tracks of prime Australian agricultural land is being bought up by the Chinese. Why does that bug me? Well mainly because if an Australian wants to purchase Chinese property they must partner a Chinese national who always has to hold the majority stake and who gets abdurdly preferential treatment by the authorities/courts if any dispute between foreign and Chinese owner occurs.
I wish I had your optimism. However, I do again point to my bias of Shorten. Remember that in context of my comment… The ALP leadership continue to placate their Union support to remain in their positions rather than provide decent leadership. While I do have a particular bias to Shorten and his low life actions of the past and his propensity, I believe he has, to continue them. I don’t believe he personally condones or is an perpetrator of domestic violence his constant and direct refusal not to condemn it as he has in the past lowers the standards of the nation. There is a lot of talk about Trump and the distasteful personality he is, yet people want to ignore similar in our own nation… which is all for his political convenience. Again no way can I vote for this grub, as I think it set the party in lowlife reflection and will in government take the nation back decades in attitude in many ways… Again I wish I had your optimism… We can discuss the capitalism aspect in many ways, but I think the when it comes to the unions and the ALP you leave the poor aspect of the Liberal intervention. The ALP left socialism behind possible 60 years ago but they I think possibly they left the social aspect of their party in the early 2000’s. the only difference other than economic in the capitalist regime is how they are corrupting capitalism not the fact they are corrupting it. but I think I am splitting hairs here. Really we do agree in this aspect. Of course capitalism can survive in a market with limited resources. I know you might be confusing Australia’s prosperity from resources to how capitalism has prospered in the nation but they are not hand in hand. Simply put, Capitalism does not distinguish product or services which is within its sphere. Capitalism simply provides fair reward for fair input as determined by market forces. Anything outside that is a corruption of the system… For example in the renewable sector, which absolutely will not grow without the subsidies provided is a corruption. If you have to artificially increase the costs of a product to make another product competitive, you are corrupting the market ergo the capitalistic system… BUT that is academic, I think the point is simply, that they do not go hand in hand…
@Bush Lawyer In case you missed it on another thread - - Now a leader in Wine and spirits production of quality. Where once roamed sheep. Tasmania. What more do you need for near economic independence? Moi Don't ize Australia
Our economy is first rate, some would argue, better than USA's. We will soon be in a budget surplus, but there is still a national debt in the billions not in the trillions as is the case in the USA. I do'nt feel at all programmed. I ask you a question about that later. They like our raw material. In an ideal World, we would turn our iron into steel here rather than export the iron and then import the steel. Fact is however, we cannot compete wages wise with the low rates of pay in SE Asia...where we are. One of the corner stones of a Westminster system of Government which is what we have, is separation of powers. Surely you are not going to argue that the USA method of a directly elected President/Prime Minister is problem free? Nah, what we have works, thank you very much. It ain't broke and does not need fixing. Pine Gap is vital to the USA defence systems around the Planet. It is yours, not ours. Nah, we need powerful allies. There is only 25 million of us and there are billions in China and India alone. We have no chance if SE Asia mobilised against us. Now, question....what freedom do I lack?
I've just watched ( binged on actually) Pine Gap on the ABC. It has induced the usual "eye in the sky" paranoia in me. We are allowed to have a go on the satellites, it's not all for the US. I don't know if anyone would be bothered to try and send missiles at it. There are the other two bases as well, that we know of.
Moi is right. It is a legitimate target. But, yer gonna need one very long rangeing missile. It would need to be fired from a coastal Warship or Sub.
We'd have to be snappy......that bastard would take about 12 mins to hit from the Coast assuming it has the range.
Please educate what I don't have straight. YOUR choice for Prime Minister is the head of Labor Party, or this or that party depending on which party gets the most seats in the Legislature. Yes? Currently your parties designated leaders are all ( )o( )'s if not idiots. Yes? And if you like some other guy for Prime Minister than the designated Party leader, you cannot vote for him as can because has separation of powers. We can even vote outside the political hierarchy such as Eisenhower or Trump. In 1960 the Party Leader was mostly, LBJ but JFK trounced him for the Party nomination. Y'think these senior Party leaders are the most bought and paid for? You guys would have been stuck with LBJ. ----------------------------------------------------- Knowing what you do about coming to the aid of an ally being invades, etc. Do you really think when the Asians invade Australia - - will be any more or less likely to come to Aussie's aid because of a mutual defense treaty or not? Speak clearly into the microphone , please. Pine Gap. Australia created a target for whose defense? Australia's? Australia should not have it or charge a hefty rental fee in currency. It's about Australia First thinking in Australia policy. Steel factories are more and more automated. Build one. etc. What Freedom do you lack? Voting for a PM independent of Parliament. Oh, guns too.
I am 65 years old, I worked for 5 years in and around the biggest red light district in Australia usually as a dorman , for the past 10 years I have lived within 5 miles of the Sydney CBD. Some of the most crime ridden suburbs, I lived for 5 years in Mt Druit (google it). So I haven't been hiding in a closet. Now never in all that time have I ever thought I needed a gun nor had a desire to carry one. I do however own several guns all locked away.
Yes, and we like not having another tier (a President) in our system. You have three teirs...Potus, Congress and the Senate. We have two. 'Congress' (known as the House of Representatives) and the Senate I suppose that depends on which side of the political dvide one stands. I suspect you misunderstand the term 'separtion of powers' in the Australian context. A simple Google will set you straight on that. ----------------------------------------------------- No, as Trump rips up agreements he does not like. What price Australia. It was created to look after the USA and yes, maybe we ought to do a Donald, rip up the Contract and demand more.....but we won't. We stick to our agrements. Aussies are like that. It seems the signature of POTUS ain't worth the ink or carbon. Sure...but it will never compete with SE Asian labour wages. Totally uneconomical. I am quite happy that the Leader of the majority Party becomes PM. We all know that when we vote. In fact, many people vote for a Party to ensure its Leader becomes PM. As for guns......no loss of freedom there unless you can explain it to me.[/quote]
