The Bible

Yes, so, where is the disagreement again? Faith have nothing to do with science, but I put a lot more faith in science above that of fairy tales meant for adults.

 

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That's pretty disrespectful. There is invaluable wisdom in the Bible. What did the fictitious Jesus say or do that you find objectionable?

If we all do what it says, we dont get Hitlers or Stalins or Pol Pots. Our families stay together. Madonna, rap, mosquitoes and taxes will be consigned to ... well never mind about those.

We do get the occasional Jimmy Swaggart, unfortunately, but I'll pay the price.

 

Sorry but I think you are really are missing the point.

We all respect the 'wisdom of the ancients' - except where that wisdom has been updated by modern knowledge. If you respect the wisdom of the ancients without reservation then you must respect the wisdom of Buddha, the wisdom and knowledge of the Egyptians and other like religions and philopsophies. If not then you are just choosing your preferences. Not respecting the 'wisdom of the ancients'.

Above in bold. It's nothing to do with societies coming and going. It's about the futility of life in the light of the mortality of the body. 'Vanity, all is vanity' repeated often. It's about all the struggles and strifes in the writers life - but God remains supreme. It says that when all else seems unjust and uncertain, man can trust god and follow him.

I'm certainly not wise but have knowledge. Wisdom does not depend on great knowledge. It depends on using what knowledge one has, large or small, wisely.

When I take my last breath it will be in the course of nature. I'm pleased for you that people ask you to pray for the souls of the deceased. It will give them comfort for a time. However, isn't that a form of hypocrisy. The soul is beyond your prayers, or are you someone special. As an ex.church organist, I have often been sprayed with Holy Water when the coffin of the deceased, in a small church, was in the chancel behind the organist. The sprinkling of Holy Water is just a sop to comfort the mourners. Most will never see the inside of a church again, nor do they actually profess any religious beliefs.

Why would anyone specually asked a scientist to pray for the soul of a person. In the minds of ordinary people the two have nothing to do with the other. People don't go to the Electrical store for a Baptism and equally people don't go to Church for a new cooker.

In a previous post you accuse me of visiting atheist sites for my views. In regard to the Bible there is no need to visit any atheist or theist site for understanding it.
Studying the Bible, Judaism and the ancient world is all that is necessary to see the errors in the Bible. If Hosea forecast Jesus then Jesus must have sacrificed and offered incense to Baal and idols. But the Gospels don't mention it. Of course Hosea was talking about Israel. And was Jesus in Egypt and Nazareth at the same time. I doubt it. And if Jesus was born in Bethlehem, why did Joseph take him there from Nazareth - against all Roman Laws. Why drag a heavily pregnant Mary 90 miles - about 7 days journey - when it was irrelevant whether Mary was there or not? Joseph had no home in Bethlehem.

The whole story is made up.

Jesus was a Jewish preacher who was probably born in Bethlehem in Zebulon, a few miles from Nazareth.

 

enlightenedadjective
US /ɪnˈlɑɪ·tənd/
showing understanding and wisdom in dealing with others:

This company is an enlightened and reasonable employer.
means open to new ideas and facts based on reason and science rather than following old, false beliefs:

Every enlightened person rejects racism in all its forms.

Cambridge dictionary.

Ooops.

 

One could get a lot more out of this book than your book of proverbs.
https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Tal...0&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=talks+of+uncle+rhemus

 

Education does not by itself provide wisdom, but one should know some basics about science before commenting about science. Claims made by science must be proven. Your claims are supported by collection of fairy tales.

What you call being given intuition I call ignoring facts that don't conform to your religious mythology?

 

Confucianism probably created a better society -- but who feels a need to deify Confucius.

 

At one point you asked me to Google "Paul the liar". What if I was to Google the"Apostle Paul the author of the Epistles"? Would I get a different story? What if I told you a well known scientist sent samples of volcanic material in to be carbon dated to a couple different labs. The dating came back that they were between 1500 years to 50 thousand years old. Then what if it was proven the sample was taken from Mt. St. Helens?
My Bible requires an element of faith. Along with applied knowledge or wisdom. It deals with infinity. Your finite science comes into error when they try to deal with the question of eternity. They do so all the time and increasingly so by adding trillions of years to their hypothesis, Yes, science is a tool just like a gun can be a practical defense weapon in the right hands.....but too many scientist band together and they like to just "shoot up the place".
You talk of "Holy Water" and playing the organ. To me, those two items are representative of a mainline denomination steeped in the traditions of man. A noted Pastor I have known once said, "The demons of hell cannot touch the Word of God but the traditions of man can make it seem of non effect.
I know many men that are far more studied in the Word than I. I do believe I do have a pretty good "spiritual understanding though. I do believe anyone of those men could effectively show you where you are in error. The arguments you point out have been on anti-Christ blogs for years. Nothing new under the sun and yes.....you are correct, all is vanity.

 

When did I ask you to Google 'Paul the liar'.? Never read it/seen it myself.

Infinity - eternity. Just words.

I should be pleased to hear from them. Of course they will be Christians, with Christian doctrine. Let me introduce you to the real meaning of Hosea as it was written hundreds of years before Jesus.
א כִּי נַעַר יִשְׂרָאֵל, וָאֹהֲבֵהוּ; וּמִמִּצְרַיִם, קָרָאתִי לִבְנִי. 1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and out of Egypt I called My son.
ב קָרְאוּ, לָהֶם; כֵּן, הָלְכוּ מִפְּנֵיהֶם--לַבְּעָלִים יְזַבֵּחוּ, וְלַפְּסִלִים יְקַטֵּרוּן. 2 The more they called them, the more they went from them; they sacrificed unto the Baalim, and offered to graven images.
ג וְאָנֹכִי תִרְגַּלְתִּי לְאֶפְרַיִם, קָחָם עַל-זְרוֹעֹתָיו; וְלֹא יָדְעוּ, כִּי רְפָאתִים. 3 And I, I taught Ephraim to walk, taking them by their arms; but they knew not that I healed them.
ד בְּחַבְלֵי אָדָם אֶמְשְׁכֵם בַּעֲבֹתוֹת אַהֲבָה, וָאֶהְיֶה לָהֶם כִּמְרִימֵי עֹל עַל לְחֵיהֶם; וְאַט אֵלָיו, אוֹכִיל. 4 I drew them with cords of a man, with bands of love; and I was to them as they that take off the yoke on their jaws, and I fed them gently.
ה לֹא יָשׁוּב אֶל-אֶרֶץ מִצְרַיִם, וְאַשּׁוּר הוּא מַלְכּוֹ: כִּי מֵאֲנוּ, לָשׁוּב. 5 He shall not return into the land of Egypt, but the Assyrian shall be his king, because they refused to return.
ו וְחָלָה חֶרֶב בְּעָרָיו, וְכִלְּתָה בַדָּיו וְאָכָלָה--מִמֹּעֲצוֹתֵיהֶם. 6 And the sword shall fall upon his cities, and shall consume his bars, and devour them, because of their own counsels.
ז וְעַמִּי תְלוּאִים, לִמְשׁוּבָתִי; וְאֶל-עַל, יִקְרָאֻהוּ--יַחַד, לֹא יְרוֹמֵם. 7 And My people are in suspense about returning to Me; and though they call them upwards, none at all will lift himself up.

Not a mention of anyone but Israel - God's son.

Of course, if your friends take the first verse out of the context.of the whole they may 'prove' Jesus. But then doing this we can make any prophecy come true.

The Bible has much wisdom but it is not infallible. The Bible you read has undergone deletions, additions and alterations. You only have to read the various Bibles down the centuries to see this. It may not mean that the basic message is wrong. but it does mean that we have problems of the 'Inspiration of the Spirit'.
Not only that we have Paul using an adaptation of OT practices and rituals in his 'religion'.

 

"No....you have "faith" that what the scientific community tells you is" truth"

Ah yes, the "Alamo" of faithy types....

Unable to elevate their own magical nonsense via reason or evidence, they are left no choice but to to attempt to drag evidence based determinations down into the meaningless muck of faith. Only in this way could they ever hope to place their magical nonsense on the same shelf as scientific knowledge or evidence based thought. I invite them all to "pray" their posts from here on out, instead of posting them on their quantum mechanical machines. See which gets more responses...

 

Jesus is supposed to have said he was the Son of God. Do you believe it? You're simply taking things out of their context in relation to the times and` situation. You think Jesus spent 3 years wandering around. If course he had a home.and we know he visited it.
Matthew 11 is taken out of context. Of course Jesus ate and drunk. He wouldn't survive without food a liquid. The Jews, as usual, accused him of derogatory actions. There's no evidence he ever was drunk or ate to excess.
Matthew 10:5. Jesus was a Jewish preacher. According to the Law his message was for the Jews, not the gentiles. They were God's people.
Matthew 11:21-24. The Jews first obligation was to God - the Law. It doesn't tell them to neglect their parents. In fact, they already had obligations under the Law to there parents. Some tried to get out of it by declaring that what should have gone to their parents was dedicated to God, therefore they did not have to help their parents.
Matthew 13:13. The OT was known to the Jews and its secrets were theirs. The Disciples were privileged as they had Jesus as their teacher and lived and worked with him. The individual people only saw him occasionally. Jewish teachers used parables to explain what they were trying to get over. Jesus often used parables from the OT The Good Shepherd, the vineyard etc are all recognised by people as from the OT - concerning the Jews.
I'm not going through the rest.
Cheapskate. The perfume was poured over his head. I doubt very much she actually asked to be allowed to do it. Once done the action cannot be undone. It was a sign of her respect for Jesus. The truth is that there should have been no really poor or needy. The Jews had obligations to the poor. The problem being that those obligations were ignored by many. Widows were often used by priests and leaders for their own benefits and profit.
Freeloader? Jesus was actually doing Zaccheaus a favour. Zacchaeus was hated and shunned by the people - yet Jesus chose to stop at his house for 'dinner'. And it benefitted the people Zacchaeus had cheated. V6.

Jesus was somply a Jewish preacher following Jewish customs and preaching Jewish themes.

 

Science only makes claims that can be proved, so science is not in error with respect to eternity as you put it. Your fairy tales are in error. Did you ever notice that the miracles noted in the Bible that violate the laws of science (Joshua having God stop the Sun comes to mind) are no longer happening? Every wonder why?

 

I have no problem at all with other-than-christian philosophies that basically urge the golden rule.

A book I never tire of reading is Henry Chadwick's "The Early Church." He reviews the life and thoughts of the earliest church fathers, including Justin Martyr, who suggested (maybe insisted, I dont know) that "the creator had planted seeds of truth in many places". This resulted in the notion of "Christian's before Christ", of which Confucius was perhaps one.

 

I dont think the sun ever actually stood still, no. Neither do these scientists, who manage to keep the faith anyway:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/eclipse-stopped-the-sun-for-biblical-joshua-israeli-scientists-say/

 

https://bible.org/question/has-“missing-day”-joshua-been-proven-scientifically

 

Did you read the whole post?

 

https://creation.com/has-nasa-discovered-a-missing-day.

No, says a Christian website.

concluding Paragraph
The concluding paragraph of NASA's letter read, ‘Although we make use of planetary positions as necessary in the determination of space-craft orbits on our computers, I have not found that any “astronauts and space scientists at Greenbelt” were involved in the “lost day” story attributed to Mr. Hill’” (p 12). All efforts to confirm the genuineness of this story have failed. Its origin is dubious; the facts do not fit the actual truth of the matter; and those who were supposedly involved in the finding of the “lost” day of Joshua know nothing about such events. Furthermore, anyone claiming that computers could somehow “find” a lost day fails to understand how computers work. The only conclusion one can draw, respecting the facts, is that this story is false. That being the case, it should not be repeated. We do a disservice to God's Word when we attempt to “defend” it with stories such as these which, with a bit of common sense and the tiniest bit of in-depth research, are easily shown to be without any factual foundation whatsoever. The Word of God can, and must, be defended. But let us make sure we do not defend it with a “broken sword.”

 

It seems that Crepitus might be real. There is evidence that he visits each of us throughout the day.

How does Yahweh, the God of the Hebrews and the God of the armies, interact with you? I have never seen that critter.

 

Early Greek Bibles were translated from the original Latin language Bibles.

 

There was no person named *Jesus* before 1632. Not one. If any source that is supposed to be written before 1632 contains the name *Jesus* it is a fraud and not original.

 

Another lost person, like many on this forum. Jesus would tell Albert Einstein the same thing He told the very religious Jew Nicodemus, "You MUST be born again....."

 

Jefferson was a flake among the Founders when it came to religion. He predicted the rise of Unitarianism and decline of evangelicalism, right before the Second Great Awakening. We could use another one of those.

 

Excellent post. We are reaping the whirlwind of that rejection of God in the form of the breakdown of the family (see the South Side of Chicago for how that works out), increased drug use, depression, etc. Glad I'm only passing through here.

 

No.

OT was written in Hebrew. NT in Greek. Then both translated into Latin in 4th century by St. Jerome.