Iran threatens to block straights of Hormuz - Again

An excellent reply, thank you! Some interesting stuff and also explains my knowledge or lack of. I was in II Corp - the Central Highlands (nowhere near the DMZ) - and I left in June of 1967 so I missed the TET party.

Back in 1983-84 I was gathering as much info as possible for a documentary I was hoping to write. My focus was on the participants of the Vietnam War on "both sides", mostly statistics. The American embassy was vague and defensive. The Korean embassy was the other extreme and in fact, the ambassador was a Vietnam Vet as well. I worked rather closely with Korean White Horse infantry in Vietnam so we did some reminiscing over the phone. He offered to provide numbers and dates from the start of Korea's participation to the very end. The real stone-wall was the Vietnamese embassy. They were suspicious and refused to tell me anything. Anyway, I figured that if I persisted I could fill in the gaps but I didn't get that far. There was (still is) a husband and wife team, here in town, who did two documentary films on the War in Vietnam and they were actually in Hanoi during Johnson's bombing of that city. I met the fellow who did those films and gave him the gist of my project. His reply was, "So what? Nobody cares." Unfortunately, Sweden's Svenska Akademien (founded in 1786) is a stiff, 'old boy' literary organization and they don't like new talent in their ranks. I was stopped dead in my tracks.

As a footnote, it was Svenska Akademien that awarded Obama the Nobel Prize for no other reason than for being black. The organisation has turned into a hammer of doom for the benefit of political correctness.

 

I am sure you had your share of unpleasant moments, but Tet did suck. A good mate's father arrived in Vietnam on the first day of the offensive. Spent the next week convinced it would be his last. The next year after that was pretty quiet by comparison (he was a mechanic, so other than a few patrols around the base he didn't go looking for trouble and fortunately found none )

Interesting. I am not surprised by the Vietnamese reaction - you were too far ahead of them. Things changed a bit in the 1990s, and foreign scholars were even able to get decent access to archives. As I am sure you are aware, it has become quite common for veterans to return to Vietnam and even meet former adversaries - though some are more forgiving than others, as you would expect.

An unnecessary and unfortunate footnote, especially as a much more apposite example of an undeserved Nobel Peace Prize would be Henry Kissinger decades earlier. That particular disgrace casts a shadow that the Obama Prize never can. At least he was embarrassed by it, rather than flaunting it. Also worth noting that Pham Van Dong, the model totalitarian autocrat, at least had the class to refuse his on the grounds that he was just doing his job.

I think this is a good place to end. Once Obama starts getting dragged into a discussion like this it has clearly reached a natural conclusion. Thanks for the chat.

 

We're on the same page.

I went back in 1999 just to say, "sorry". I've met two from Hanoi here at home. The first one (in 1982) treated me as though the war was still on but the second one (about 3 years ago) shook my hand and gave me a hug.

Yes, I admired him for that.

 

In 1982 the war was too close. Plus Vietnam quickly went into the wars with Kampuchea & China. The rebuilding wasn't anywhere near complete. Twenty and thirty hears seem to be much better gaps.

I know of plenty of Aussie vets who go over and meet the actual men they fought. Sometimes quite literally - swapping notes on the same battles from different ends. They discuss the war without emnity - in some ways they have much more in common than they do with people at home who didn't serve. I get the impression it helps everyone involved one way or another. I can certainly understand why some people may not be able to do that, but I am happy for the ones who can.

 

Definitely true. On the internet, I meet Americans (some who served some who didn't) but they are living under the "hurrah for our side" mentality and do not seem to understand anything beyond that. Seeing this fellow from Hanoi (he owns a small shop here) is a warm experience. The exchange of money for a soft drink or some chocolate is like saying "forgive me" and "I already have". After all, we are both victims of the same circumstance of history and we, more than most, know what really happened and why it did.

 

You must really be worried that your friends the Iranians just wont be able to handle whats coming their way. What happens when the Iranians get stomped on? What propaganda will you hurry up to start preaching for them?

 

So you admit that one ship can't block the straits, Right? You are able to figure out that much, correct?

 

As Stratfor Worldview indicates, there isn’t alot of room for tanker ships or warships to maneuver:

The Strait of Hormuz is 21 miles across at its narrowest. The shipping traffic corridor itself is a mere 6 miles wide, with 2 miles each for incoming and outgoing traffic, separated by a 2-mile buffer.

the Tanker War (1984-1987). By mid-1987 the U.S., the U.K., and France, were providing naval escorts (convoy protection) for commercial shipping through the strait and in the gulf.

As one of many tactics used in the Tanker War, Iran began to use mines in the Persian Gulf as early as May, 1987, to attack shipping, according to the U.S. Naval Institute. Eventually these moored mines were found intentionally anchored in the shipping lanes and as far south as the Gulf of Oman.

In September, 1987, U.S. forces caught an Iranian minelayer vessel, the Iran Ajr, in the act of laying mines. The ship was attacked and siezed. Later it was scuttled, but not before the mines aboard had been examined.

On April 14, 1988, the USS Samuel B. Roberts, a guided missile frigate, was damaged and nearly sunk by an Iranian mine in the Persian Gulf while on escort duty (Operation Earnest Will). U.S. forces cleared the minefield where the Roberts had been struck. A comparison of serial numbers between these mines and the mines found aboard the Iran Ajr the previous September proved that it was an Iranian mine that had nearly sunk the Roberts.

In response, the United States launched Operation Praying Mantis on April 18, 1988. In the one-day action, the U.S. Navy quickly sank one Iranian frigate, one gunboat, and three Boghammars (speedboats). Two militarized oil platforms used by Iranian naval forces were also destroyed. A second Iranian frigate was severely damaged and nearly sunk. Disabled, that ship had to be towed into port for extensive repairs. These were heavy losses for the small force that Iran’s navy was at that time.

Operation Praying Mantis was important because it demonstrated to Iran that the United States would not tolerate the closure of shipping lanes in or around the Strait of Hormuz, by mines or any other means. Apparently the message was received. Iran has not attempted to close the strait since, although they’ve threatened to many times.....snip~

https://thenewsblender.com/2018/08/can-iran-close-the-strait-of-hormuz/

One ship is not enough to block the straits.

 

It seems not to be an if to you but a when. So it's obvious that Iran already got their plans set. They'll close down the straights. And your war mongering president will have to answer to the rest of the world for yet an other pointless war and a utterly massive spike in the fuel price.

 

Seems you're unable to come up with the idea that being threatened to be blown up is enough for oil ships to not even try.

 

What will happen is Iran will take the blame.....whether they want to or not.

Then Iran will take that ass kickin. Whether they want to or not.


See how that works!

 

Yeah that's what they said in the past. Then up jumped reality and the Iranians got their asses handed to them.

the Tanker War (1984-1987). By mid-1987 the U.S., the U.K., and France, were providing naval escorts (convoy protection) for commercial shipping through the strait and in the gulf.....snip~


Great White says.....Once Bitten, Twice shy Baby.

 

Total nonsense, the Vienna protocol prevents any such attacks on a sovereign embassy. If iran had an issue with what was being done there, they should have ended diplomatic relations and asked all staff to leave the country.

Further, where would that leave iran WRT: lebanon, iraq, syria, bahrain, gaza and yemen in 2018?

So where would that leave iran WRT: its recent diplomats who were caught and arrested/deported as part of their attempts to commit terrorism on French and Danish soil?

Guess you forgot how it was IRANIANS who did all the work to depose mossadegh, who had violated the iranian constitutions by atempting to usurp the shah's lawful powers.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/middle-east/2014-06-16/what-really-happened-iran

A small fact you left out was that khomeini and his fellow clerics supported the removal of mossadegh.

So where are the iranian admissions of guilt for all of its far greater and more numerous, monstrous crimes?

It is undermining the governments of FIVE other countries - yet you're totally silent about that. Pathetic.

 

Dude... how on earth can 1 ship block that strait? How about you go respond to the argument no commercial ship full with fuel is willing to go through a war zone?

 

Pfff... the US got the blame on Iraq. They and the UK lied to the world.
The "winner" isn't the one making the propaganda that we all have to believe.
Them days are gone.

The world is already not following the US on Iran. It really is that the US stands alone with it's minion Israel. Get real.

 

Yeah, you mean during the days that they all were teaming up against Iran, by helping out Iraq rage their WMD war against it. Let me remind you that Iran won that war and these days they even got their missiles in Iraq. You gambling the outcome will be just the same while the world changed. I don't even see that the UK and France will help the US out even. They are against the US even when they pulled out on the Iran deal. I dunno how you missed all this. This is all American nationalistic propaganda talking, from somebody who hardly follows the news.

 

There are still the NATO members that need to be sorted out but I think Turkey is moving toward the exit and I can imagine that other member-states are waiting to see what happens before doing the same.

 

The US got the blame huh. I thought it was all those allies that supported the US too.

Well its certainly not the losers Propaganda that all end up believing. Ask your Iranian buddies.

The world huh? You should tell the Euros that since they ran to the UN Security counsel due to Iran firing off a ballistic missile that can hit Europe.

 

No I meant in the tanker war. Wherein Iran thought more of themselves than what was actually there.....then got that ass spanked.

Tell Iran to close the straits, and then watch and see how the Brits and the French treat them.

 

Evidently you not to well versed with History. The Tanker war put reality into the mix. Your Iranians tried, then got their asses kicked. This next time will be far worse and then Iran won't have much of military force afterwards. Not even one that will be able to defend their Country.

 

No doubt that the sanctions and trade war is benefiting Russia - and also China. These nations are out there doing deals and developing trade relations while many of our closest allies continue to distance themselves from the US.

It looks like this is starting to seriously effect the stock market - down another 400 points today. The Dow is now below where we started the year and almost 10% below the high for the year.

 

Forgive me for saying it but I wouldn't mind if the U.S. does stagger. I feel sympathy for Americans but there are too many of them who want to nuke everything. The U.S. has been destroying Democracy where ever it tries to grow. I am not a political wizard and do not pretend to understand it in depth but I would like to see NATO crash and burn, the U.S. shunned out of most international business deals, American soldiers stop waging war, and for the U.S. to create some other lucrative deal that can sustain the American people without destroying the rest of the world. The American military-industrial complex must be stamped out.

 

I would like to see the same for the most part. Trying to maintain economic hegemony by projecting power has been the downfall of every economic empire that I know of ... from Rome to the Spanish and British empires.

We are making big blunders on the geopolitical chessboard.

 

I tried to avoid having those feelings for a long time but finally, I could no longer sympathize with "the American way". I see no "mistakes" but rather "intention". And if you think it through, the intention becomes clear. It's the consequence in the pudding that leaves no doubt.

Yeah, we talk about it and shuffle it around and kick it in the sand and in the end that is the A to Z of reality.

There again, I shy away from calling them blunders. Sure, they won't help to keep America on its feet but the ones making those "blunders" come out smelling like roses while the population (both Ameican and international) end up sucking on rocks for nourishment.

 

International financiers are going to squeeze the last drops of milk out of this cow and then quietly exit prior to default.