Iran threatens to block straights of Hormuz - Again

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by Giftedone, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Still wouldn't save the ship. Without radar and fire director it can't do ****. Not all parts of the superstructure are as armored.
     
  2. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If Iran feels the need to defend itself maybe they should stop threatening to destroy Israel?
     
  3. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You know Iran has the ability to build nukes, just was not ready with them ten years ago or whenever it was Israel started demanding sanctions on them for doing what she had done. Prior to the deal it was believed Iran was all but ready to get the finished product - a big reason why people wanted the deal - even if it was only for ten or 15 years right now, a lot can happen in that time and hopefully Iran would be well settled in the world and things could be properly resolved. I think you will find that the argument was that Iran had not decided to build nukes. To know all about them but not to build them or she possibly would have had them when Israeli started wetting herself about the thought. Personally, if I had been ruler of Iran we would have had them long ago and I do not even believe in the things but the economic wars and threats of hot wars even nuclear ones that have been given to Iran demands Iran get itself some protection. Iran is also suffering badly from Global warming so has a more pressing need to be able to transact with the world.

    Iran said when the US reneged on its treaty that it would build nukes. All that is required is that they get some of the items in and build. They said they would not provided the EU managed to sort it so that Trump's going against International laws and bringing the US into worldwide disrepute in its attempts to harm the Iranian people so much they would have a revolution, did not work. I think the extent the EU has managed is far from complete. I do not know whether Iran is still letting inspectors in. What she can do is build her nukes to her hearts content. She went by the agreement. The US did not.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
  4. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    give a link please. Israel is the one I hear repeatedly saying she is going to destroy Iran and demanding the US destroy Iran and of course the US is now the one threatening Iran. Clearly Iran needs nukes to protect herself from those aggressors.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
  5. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Before WW ll USN warships didn't have radar.

    FYI:
    Radar tells all where you are.

    How to Hide a Task Force...-> http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-031.php
     
  6. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who does Iran call "Big Satan" and "Little satan?"
    So what's stopping the US or Israel from nuking Iran if that is what they want to do?
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
  7. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    so you have nothing to back up what you said. waste of time.
     
  8. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Where is your link proving Israel and the US want to wipe out Iran?
     
  9. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They could do far more than that just on the basis of a threat - never mind boarding a Tanker and forcing it to turn back. This does not even include escalation to attacking a tanker (warning shots) .. or getting really crazy by firing on a vessel or laying mines.

    You are talking nonsense.
     
  11. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    No single power on earth can stand in the way of our Navy on the water. If we were talking land forces perhaps they could hold. But on the high seas we would sweep them from the water in hours. Especially in a closed space.
     
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  12. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They had fire director. Those would also be taken out.
    Look at what happened to the Bismark. They didn't punctured the hull, they totally destroyed the superstructure and killed almost everybody on it.
     
  13. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Germans scuttled the Bismark.

    The British hate admitting that.

    But it was a good story for awhile.

     
  14. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, and?
    The ship was destroyed before they scuttled it. It didn't have any fire directors left and the turrets were destroyed and most of the deck and commad crew were dead. You don't have to sink a ship to destroy it. If the ship can't fire, can't steer and can't move, it's dead!
     
  15. BuckyBadger

    BuckyBadger Well-Known Member

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    That is pretty accurate. They can threaten and bluster and even send out a ship or two but if they light up their radars and start to lock onto ships, we'll take them out in a pretty routine fashion. The only hindrance we have right now is I am not sure we have a CBG in the Gulf region. Last I checked, we did not. Their "blockade" may last 24 hours at the very, very most.

    Iran doesn't want to start a war over this because they know they would lose and they know that virtually the entire world would be angry enough to look into wholesale regime change and if it is one thing Iranian leaders want, it is to sit at the top. They can stay in place by not angering the rest of the world.
     
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  16. jimmy rivers

    jimmy rivers Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense deleted.

    So you admit that both iran and you lied, because you're claiming iran can now build nuclear weapons after claiming they never tried to or could.

    They are not lego block toys, you can't just decide to build one today unless you've done years of extensive testing and research, which means they lied all along, and their apologists like you were lying for them.

    Which means the JCPOA was not worth the paper it was printed on because iran did not fulfill its obligations to disclose prior weapons research and activity.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
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  17. jimmy rivers

    jimmy rivers Well-Known Member

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    Straight out of the Saul Alinsky/Stalin propaganda manual; accuse your enemy of doing exactly what you are.

    When the arab muslims, Israel and US finally decide to destroy the iranian regime in the near future, and the cancerous tentacles of iran are removed from lebanon, gaza, iraq, bahrain, yemen and syria, the mideast will be able to breathe a sigh of relief as Europe did in May 1945.

    After that, as I said above, there will be extensive research by the iranian people to track down all of the regime's paid agents and shills who spouted its propaganda for years, such as trita parsi. I expect that the iranian people have every reason to be angry that there were such frauds and propagandists spouting regime talking points on the internet and major media, and they will justifiably be seeking retribution for it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
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  18. jimmy rivers

    jimmy rivers Well-Known Member

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    How many times since 1979 have the clerical filth running iran sworn to destroy Israel and the US? About a million times.
    <Mod Edit>
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2018
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  19. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who said anything about taking on our Navy. Iran does not have to take on our Navy to cause a major disruption in the straits.

    The straits are not "the high seas" - at one point the straits are 21 miles wide. Any ship in that area is at a serious disadvantage and can be easily taken out. Obviously the response would be devastating but, the idea that a navel force has some advantage in a closed space defies everything we know about navel warfare.

    Regardless - this is putting the cart before the horse. As stated previously - Iran can close the straits - for a whole lot more than a few hours. We could open them but, this takes time.
     
  20. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    How would Iran close 21 miles of strait for a significant amount of time? Or hell what is your definition of "more then a few hours?" Maybe our definitions are the issues not the Iranian capability.
     
  21. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I already explained this to you. Iran needs only threaten in order to scare ships from making the trip. Further - Iran has been discussing not a complete closure but blocking only Saudi Shipments.

    It is not difficult for Iran to board a Saudi Tanker and confiscate it. It would take significant time to resolve this issue. What are we going to do in response to such an event - the floor is yours ?
     
  22. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    Screw the Saudi's for one, they like Iran are now our competitors in the oil market. BUT if Iran was to start stopping international trade in general then most likely we would embargo the their ports and escort shipping to prevent Iranian piracy. Then see if they wanted to go to war. If they did we would eliminate their country from the face of the planet, if they did not then they would need to reach some kind of deal with us that included respecting maritime law.
     
  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exactly .. now you are making sense. Obviously - at least initially - this would cause a major disruption to the global oil market - it is just how these things work. It would take time - who knows how long - to respond in a way that gets the next Tanker through. How much money are we going to spend "escorting" Saudi Tankers and for how long ?

    Embargoing their ports is not so easy. We would have to get China and Russia on board. What are we going to do - start blocking Chinese and Russian ships ?
     
  24. Crawdadr

    Crawdadr Well-Known Member

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    It most likely would be a Cuban Missile Crisis situation if the Russians or Chinese tried to go past the Embargo IF it was just us. But if the Iranians started boarding ships in international waters I would be shocked if other nations did not get on board. No country that relies on international trade across the water will want the Iranians to set the precedent that it is ok to board foreign ships without a deceleration of war in international waters.
     
  25. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Now you have your geopoitical thinking cap on.

    I think other nations "might" be on board but at the same time they will - at least in part - blame the US. Remember that none of the other nations that were party the "Iran Deal" agreed with the US backing out. In addition - none of the other nations agreed with the sanctions on Iraq - imposed unilaterally on these other nations by the US - basically "comply or else".

    In fact - never mind China and Russia - France and Germany have been using the strongest language in condemning the US usurping their sovereignty - To the point of Macron suggesting that Europe needs its own defense force outside of NATO to protect against Russia - China -"and the US". While I think this is mostly bluster and over the top - the point is that Europe is pissed.

    So what does "comply or else" mean ? The US has the ability to shut any nation out of the international system of payments. This is due to the "SOLE" status of the US dollar as the world reserve currency. Being shut out of the system of international payments pretty much means your large international banks go out of business because they can't do business.

    Over the last decade in particular (since the 2008 crash) the world has become increasingly uncomfortable with this situation. There have been moves to create a competitor - China introducing the Petro Yuan - The IMF introducing SDR - although this can only be used nation to nation and not by corporations or individuals.

    Using the US dollar as a club - a club to force nations into submission - to go along with the sanctions was the Nuclear option .. and as with the use of nuclear weapons there is fallout.

    This trade war and the Iran sanctions are expediting the creation of an alternative to the US dollar - a valid competitor. Every other nation wants this (no one likes to have a dagger over their head) and is looking for any reason to hasten the creation of a competitor.

    Some Iran Crisis would just add more fuel to the fire (as did the arrest of the CEO of Huawei).

    Call me crazy but IMO we are making big blunders on the geopolitical chessboard. Agree or disagree with my assessment - make no mistake - the history books will record the date when a valid competitor to US dollar as the world reserve currency arises - as the defacto end of the US economic empire... Full Stop.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018

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