Is a libertarian is essentially a slow conservative?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by james M, Dec 14, 2018.

  1. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,849
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The only people worse than social conservatives are progressives who are so totalitarian that they can't even debate anyone in public without being roundly destroyed.
     
  2. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2012
    Messages:
    24,506
    Likes Received:
    7,247
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Libertarianism is a broad subject.

    Some are categorically opposed to government, they see the state of nature as superior to life under a state.

    Some want a limited night-watchman state to punish murder, rape, theft, and to monopolise the use of force.

    Others still think all this is irrelevant, the state is no different from crime, and crime will never be eradicated. So better to just ignore what the state says and form black and grey markets to avoid tax and regulation in the here and now rather than trying to change the world so radically.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  3. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    11,096
    Likes Received:
    3,393
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Libertarianism is REALLY starting to piss of Progressives.

    Libertarians blow apart a lot of the big government ideas of Progressives and it is a serious problem, I have noticed a new attack trend lately.

    Most Libertarians don't follow some sort of "creed", we are just typically small government, anti-authoritarians. Most of us absolutely hate the controlling parts of religion, but are cool with it otherwise. But putting overt restrictions is a big no no to us.

    It used to be the Right with morals that we didn't like and the Left with finances.

    But in the last couple years, culture (attacks from Left) have pretty much nullified the moral control the Right had. The Left however, still uses (to an increased degree) their fiscal control, while at the same time introducing Intersectionality which added moral control.

    The Left at this time is all about control and that is why you see the Libertarian mindset being the counter to it that a lot of people are being drawn to.
     
    Hotdogr likes this.
  4. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2017
    Messages:
    3,980
    Likes Received:
    1,376
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  5. james M

    james M Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Messages:
    12,916
    Likes Received:
    858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    so what is difference between libs cons and libertarians?
     
  6. james M

    james M Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Messages:
    12,916
    Likes Received:
    858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    so you don't know difference between libs cons libertarians?
     
  7. james M

    james M Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Messages:
    12,916
    Likes Received:
    858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I said founding principles not founding documents. Do you understand? Marriage was covered by church but now liberals have killed the church so now government is our only option. Do you understand?

    protesting flag burning are in Bill of Rights
     
  8. james M

    james M Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Messages:
    12,916
    Likes Received:
    858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    the budget ended the Obama years. tax cuts regulation cuts and military and misc spending were all part of it
     
  9. james M

    james M Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Messages:
    12,916
    Likes Received:
    858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    yes marriage was around and an integral part of society at the founding so conservatives want to conserve it because it is superior. GEt it now?
     
  10. james M

    james M Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Messages:
    12,916
    Likes Received:
    858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    so you're not a social conservative? Why? Are you a social /sexual anarchist? Never thought about it right?
     
  11. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,849
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Im Libertarian minus the open borders stuff. Which means that I don't run around telling people how to live their lives like you and the progressives do. People should be able to do whatever they want so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others and gay marriage in no way shape or form prevents anyone else from getting married just like burning flags and smoking pot doesn't infringe on anyone else's rights either.

    The only reason that progressives are worse than social conservatives is that their machinations end up hurting entire cities and demographics as we have seen the relentless destruction of blacks in this country by progressives as well as them destroying entire states like California and Illinois.
     
  12. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There are geographic differences in libertarianism. Genuinely speaking, it will go hand in hand with the likes of anarchism. That is less so in the US. Here, elites have funded sites and merely provided conservatives with an opportunity to acquire a more exotic label.

    We can't even refer to the American libertarians being anti-coercion. For example, like standard conservatives, they'll moan about minimum wages. They'll deliberately ignore that, once we factor in the labour market failures that are associated with market power, minimum wages actually are beneficial to economic exchange (increasing wage and reducing equilibrium unemployment rates).
     
  13. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    50,653
    Likes Received:
    41,718
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Then the government ends up carrying the burden of the elderly living in abject poverty which costs even more than Social Security does.

    Why don't libertarians understand that there are serious consequences to their shortsighted and purely selfish misconceptions?
     
    Mr_Truth and JakeStarkey like this.
  14. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    50,653
    Likes Received:
    41,718
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The 1st Amendment covers flag burning and protesting and the rights to privacy and non discrimination covers marriage.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
    Mr_Truth and JakeStarkey like this.
  15. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,849
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Or here is a thought, maybe we should start taking care of our elders like people in other countries do instead of just throwing them into nursing homes.

    What is selfish is expecting someone else to pay for the care of your own family members. Take care of grandma and grandpa yourself and stop expecting someone else to do it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
  16. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,849
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It took SCOTUS rulings to cement those positions in place but when the country was founded not a single one of them was even considering gay marriage. Also, protesting has gone back and forth between SCOTUS decisions often depending on whether or not the country was at war.
     
  17. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Messages:
    50,653
    Likes Received:
    41,718
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The $20+ TRILLION National Debt is a DIRECT result of selfish libertarian policies.

    The DEREGULATION of the Wall Street Casino that caused the economic collapse of 2008 were a DIRECT result of selfish libertarian policies.

    The OUTSOURCING of jobs paying hardworking Americans a living wage with benefits were a DIRECT result of selfish libertarian policies.

    Caring for your grandparents ASSUMES that there is a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD where hardworking Americans have jobs that pay living wages with benefits.

    But selfish libertarians have stripmined the wealth of hardworking Americans leaving them with nothing but social security in their old age.

    And now greed obsessed libertarians want to take away social security and turn America into yet another poverty stricken 3rd world ****hole nation.
     
    Mr_Truth likes this.
  18. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,276
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    well a libertarian is a liberal. They may be very socially liberal. government power is authoritarianism. We find currently that libertarians line up more with the right at the moment because the left is having a bit of an identity crisis.
     
  19. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not the case. There are some who try to play the game that classical liberalism is not dead as a dodo. However, they're not supporting policies by the likes of Adam Smith (who was rather egalitarian), but finding arguments to support unethical capitalist outcome.
     
  20. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,276
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Will the concept of classical liberalism would suggest that modern authoritarianism is liberal it is not.
     
  21. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Classical liberalism has little to say. For example, Smith predated the rise of corporate power. It's that reality which fake libertarians ignore (despite often just copying and pasting information from online sites funded by big business).

    The reality is that we are referring to market fundamentalism, where neoliberalism is left to run amok (which is coercive, by definition).
     
  22. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,849
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The only selfish people are people like you. You NEVER actually pay for anything yourself but you constantly vote for someone else to pay for it. The second that it comes out of your pocket then you move to another state and work on destroying that one as well.

    And in case you haven't noticed libertarians have NEVER been in charge of ANYTHING. Its progressives like you that have destroyed Illinois and California and countless cities across the country like Atlanta and Milwaukee and San Francisco etc.

    Texas is more libertarian than California and yet Texas outperforms California in virutally every single category from home ownership, education, employment, social mobility, quality of life and so on. Its very clear when you compare those two states with virtually identical demographics which one works. Your side destroys everything with tax and spend policies with no regard to taxpayers themselves. The great irony is that the only way you can keep Silicon Valley is by massive corporate welfare and tax exemptions which you constantly decry and even that isn't enough to day as more and more tech companies abandon the progressive **** hole that is California and move to Texas, Israel and other places.

    Even in my state we get to compare a state run by Republicans who are more libertarian than their counterparts in Illinois and what a fun time that has been mocking the constant stupidity of liberals in Illinois as they completely trash that state as well. Face it whatever you progressives touch you just destroy with regulations and taxes. You are the selfish virus/parasites of this country.

    2008. HAHAHAHAHA! You really have no idea what the hell you are talking about at all.

    http://archive.boston.com/news/poli...k_haunted_by_stance_on_fannie_freddie/?page=1

     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
  23. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,706
    Likes Received:
    21,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The government ends up carrying the burden because bleeding hearts won't let folks suffer the consequences of their own poor life choices.

    Why can't I put my fate in my oun hands and be left alone?
     
  24. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,276
    Likes Received:
    18,037
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes it's normally characterized by a phrase or and idea. It may not be a lot of words but that is not necessarily A Bad thing.

    corporate power is corporatism not capitalism.

    this appears to be word salad.
     
  25. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
    Messages:
    7,792
    Likes Received:
    4,229
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Libertarians just have different viewpoints on certain issues. For example, I hear they are OK with open borders because people should be free to move around as they wish. They are for legalized drugs of all kinds since people should be free to pump their own bodies with whatever they feel like.
     

Share This Page