Syrian Flag Raised In Manbij To Protect Kurds From Turkish Threat

Russia's actual words and actions contradict your entire narrative.

And minor risks? Laughable. The fact that Russian and US forces are often operating at cross-purposes in Syria presents a major risk, not only to Russia, but to the US as well. The fact that Russia has managed to navigate this complex and risky battle-space without incurring a major cost is a testament to their military and diplomatic competence, which they will now bring to bear on any recalcitrant Turkish forces remaining in Syrian territory.

 

Their words certainly do. So do American words, Turkish words, Syrian words, Iranian words, Jihadist words, Islamist words, Kurdish words etc. etc.

If you were to interpret historical events using the words leaders use, you'd be wrong every time.

Yes.

Both parties were careful to ensure that they were able to operate with minor risk. Both the Russians and Americans tip-toed around each other.

If involvement in the conflict brought significant risk of war between the two, neither would be involved in the conflict.

No, it's a testament to their unwillingness to fight a major power war over Syria. This is a key aspect of the dynamics at play here.

One has to wonder why they've waited so long.

The Russians are taking the same approach to the Turks that they took with the Americans, they're going to try and define spaces of operation in which each will and will not operate. Why? Because they really, really, really don't want a war with the Turks.

Trump didn't abandon the Kurds because he didn't like them or because his heart bleeds for American soldiers in Syria, he abandoned the Kurds because the risk of conflict with Turkey was significant, and the alliance between Turkey and the United States was on the verge of falling apart. The Russians are going to abandon Assad because he's just not worth a war with a major NATO power when they already have more pressing concerns elsewhere.

To the Turks and Iranians, Syria is THE pressing concern. They're going to fight and bleed over it in significant numbers. Not so for Americans or Russians.

 

I know changing demographics in order to claim cities has always been a Turkish policy, like for instance Alexandretta, and I did read that the Kurds were harassing Arabs to leave. Whether it was in Manjib or elsewhere I don't know.

I'm sure the Kurds with US backing are ethnically cleansing the areas east of the Euphrates so they can establish a Kurdish nation and deprive Assad of the oil and gas he needs to rebuild his nation. I even suspect we destroyed Raqqa deliberately so as to discourage the locals from moving back. I have to assume they are Shia Arabs - but I'm not certain.

Moscow said they are in the city, but didn't specify an area.

 

Russian actions back up their words.

Unlike US leaders, Russian leaders usually do what they say they will.

For example, Putin said he would help the Syrian government win the war in Syria. And that's exactly what has happened.

The next step in Russia's Syrian campaign is to return control of ALL Syrian territory to the Syrian government. And if the US stays out of the way, that's exactly what will happen.

The probability that the risk will come to fruition is low, but the risk itself is a major one. There is a difference.

Except they are fighting the US over Syria. Russia has been relentlessly bombing US proxies in Syria for years. The entire point of Russian involvement in Syria is to defeat the US-led "regime change" operation taking place there. And Russia has basically achieved that objective. Now they will move on to their next objective, which is returning control of all Syrian territory to the Syrian government.

Because of the US presence in Syria, obviously. The US is the only power capable of thwarting Russia's objectives in Syria. Once the US leaves, the biggest and most important obstacle to Russia's objectives will be gone. And because the Russians are patient and sophisticated actors who rarely make a move without careful deliberation. But their patience and restraint only makes it more likely that they will succeed in their strategy to return Syria to its pre-war status quo.

Which has resulted in "the Americans" leaving Syria.

Yes, Russia will take a careful and patient approach towards Turkish forces in Syria, which is exactly why they will succeed in removing Turkish forces from Syrian territory.

 

It depends on the leader. Western leaders use deception and lies as a tool to manipulate others, while Putin uses honesty to gain people's trust. Big difference!

Turkey is not the US. Putin will take Turkey's concerns into account the way it took Israel's for so many years, as long as those interests aren't in conflict with Moscow's own interests. Syria remaining intact is in Moscow's interest. Let's not forget also that Washington was involved in the plot to kill Erdogan, and he was saved by Putin.

So as long as Erdogan is in power, there will be no war in Syria, the Aegean or Cyprus - and believe me they are coming close to it. Moscow feels that a war in the Aegean and Cyprus is inevitable, and that it's own security will be at stake.

Wishful thinking with no basis in reality. Syria and Russia right now are one and the same.

 

Yeah, you have a realistic conception of political leadership, too.

That may happen. If it does, it'll be because the Turks and Syrians came to an agreement. The Russians will be ancillary players.

And even if that does happen, Assad will be ousted within a matter of years.

Both aspects figure into how risky something is.

The only "fight" between the Americans and the Russians has been a race to conquer ISIS territory before the other side did.

That fight is over.

Sure, knowing that support within American leadership for these proxies was weak and waning. American support for the Kurds was more significant and growing, so neither the Syrians nor Russians were willing to move against them.

No, it isn't. The US has extended no support to the western rebels for years. The Turks have, though, especially in Idlib. And there the Turks sit, just waiting to take more territory. And they will.

Wrong again. The Turks are capable an willing, and they're going to pull it off.

No it hasn't. The threat of Turkish invasion has.

Unlike the Americans, the Turks have skin in the game, and they're going to outlast the Russians and even Assad.

 

I really hope that the honesty of Russian political leadership is not at the center of your analysis.

Indeed he will. That's why the Russians and Turks are both talking about cooperation in Syria, while the Syrians and Iranians try to figure out how to kill Turkish invaders.

It's just not true.

 

He's seeing the world through his own glasses, as did those who believed Russia would buckle with the first sanctions. Instead Putin used the opportunity to make Russia self sufficient in just about everything, while Europe lost billions in exports and a market they will never regain. Russia is now not only the second greatest military power after the US, but also one of the fastest growing economies as well.

It's amazing how little people know Russia. I realized that when Washington thought Moscow was bluffing when they annexed Crimea. What they can't realize is that deception and trickery works only once, and yet they keep trying to pull the same lies and propaganda against Russia as they did with the Bolshevik revolution - which in the end worked towards their detriment - as well as when the Soviet Union collapsed and they stole billions - which again worked to their detriment.

To me there is no one as stupid as those who underestimate the intelligence of others. It was the US that chose to make Russia an enemy, and we will suffer for it.

 

I accept people at their word until they prove otherwise - and it's never failed me. Putin's ideals conform with my own, and I haven't seen him do otherwise. As for those who see him differently, I take a good look at them, since it usually reflects themselves and what they are. I assume the same about Assad, although I haven't followed his words and actions, so I can't be sure. What I am sure of though, is that the MSM is nothing but a propaganda mechanism for some very evil people.

Russia will find a solution with Turkey on how the territory can remain under Syrian control, and yet satisfy Turkey's concern's about it's security. Of course this is not what Turkey wants but who cares, after all Turkey thinks that everything from Mosul to Thessaloniki belongs to it.

 

Nope... Areas to Mosul to Thessaloniki have Turkish cultural influence for historical reasons. It is not about belonging...
Greeks from Turkey were mainly settled in Greece's Macedonia region. They are culturally same with us, old Greeks can understand Turkish as well. Also Karamanids live in that region they are Turcopols... What is wrong with that???

 

Yep we are a minor power as being 9th.
https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp

 

Firstly we will ripe out YPG and ISIS, and 3 million Syrian refuges will return their own land and we will withdraw.

Russia supports us.

 

Don't depend on the MSM to tell the truth about the border issue.

 

Okey daddy, I am sorry

 

If you want to have an intelligent debate, learn the facts. Or wallow in your distorted beliefs that you got from the American DNC propaganda machine. It's up to you.

 

Syrian Flag Raised In Manbij To Protect Kurds From Turkish Threat

Must be a bullet proof flag.

 

Must be an imaginary propaganda flag, since Syria kills Kurds too.

 

Anyway, a Turkish offensive is not a given. Turkey hosts 3,500,000 Syrian refugees (feel free to compare how many refugees your country hosts; especially while half the US is terrified speechless of of 9,000 Latinos asking for asylum. Germany and Sweden get a pass). Turkey is also doing poor economically. We really want Syrians back to Syria. Main interest of Turkey is to form zones of stability in north Syria, so that people can go back. Turkey also wants fewer terror attacks if possible, thank you. These are the Real Facts !

YPG (Kurdish forces in the region, as they are connected with PKK) can play ball, by withdrawing from some regions as they occupied and/or stop oppressing non Kurds in the regions they control. They may choose not to play ball, in which case we will see a repeat of the Operation Olive Branch.
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Oh, for YPG: Relying the support of your western overlords to carry out terror attacks in Turkey? Not nice. It will take one news cycle for the western opinion to shift from “brave freedom fighters” to “horrible smelly Islamic terrorists”.

Stop the attacks. Support the Kurdish political movement. It is not the 1980s and 1990s; Kurds are a strong voice in Turkey. Play the political game. Condemn the violence (from any source). Allow liberal or left-wing Turks to support you.

 

Currently, the US has taken in 3 million refugees.
https://www.unrefugees.org/refugee-facts/usa/
Those 9000 are nothing compared to the tens of millions of illegals living in the US, can Turkey compare to that? It's nothing more than an attempt to overload our immigration officials so more illegals slip in.
You probably are fairly well informed on the Kurds, are they still mostly Marxists?

 

And the Kurds have been grabbing Arab homes and lands. The Kurds know now that their only hope for survival is to stop chasing away the indigenous Arabs.

Assad offered them a federal state within Syria, since they have been fighting ISIS. This way they will be within international law, and protected from Turkey by Syria and Russia.

Anyway Russia and Turkey did come to an agreement about Manjib. I assume that the YPG will leave as the Syrian army comes in, since it was one of Turkey's original demands.

 

You forget Turkey created the problem with its 'Friends of Syria' meetings in Istanbul. Anyway an agreement was reached between Putin and Erdogan over Manjib - and I'm sure Turkey's security concerns will be taken into account. Anyway as far as refugees are concerned, Turkey is not that bad off. I also believe they are being compensated for the costs by Germany.

Anyway Turkey cries too much. If you notice, the refugee ratio to population for Turkey is miniscule compared to Jordan and especially Lebanon. Also Turkey is quite wealthy compared to Jordan.

Nation...…….. Population...…… Syrian Refugees

Turkey...…….. 80,000,000 …………..3,500,000
Lebanon...…….. 6,000,000...…………1,000,000
Jordan...……….. 9,500,000...…………..660,000

You're right, the Kurds have been oppressing the local Arabs with the hope no doubt of ethnically cleansing the areas to establish their own nation. If the US will get the hell out of there, I'm sure the problems will be solved.
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Support the Kurdish political movement when Selahattin Demirtas is in jail?

 

According to Greekpronews - a non MSM news source, the Kurdish leadership of the YPG agreed to hand over the city to the lawful government of Damascus and the Russian military in Syria . 400 Kurdish fighters have left Manjib and are heading for the eastern bank of the Euphrates River .

On December 28 the YPG confirmed the withdrawal of its forces from the region before the "Turkish threats" and called on the Syrian army to enter the city to protect it from the Turkish invasion forces. On the same day, Damascus announced the development of government forces on the outskirts of Manjib. ​