What’s Peter Dutton’s game?

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by truthvigilante, Dec 30, 2018.

  1. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What’s this dude up to? All this Turnbull venting only seems to suggest one thing...he is hoping for a spill before the next election?! Kept my head out of politics for a bit but interest is growing with a federal election to held by November 2019 at the latest. I think ScoMo and the government would have to be on red alert as a consequence of Dutton’s comments! No doubt already up to their necks with damage control. Anyway, I think I smell a rat and it smells like Dutton’s ambitions at whatever cost! Maybe he thinks he can be the messiah and save his colleagues seats. The way things are heading in the polls they may just put their support behind Dutton!
    I know I’m probably missing pieces of the puzzle and happy to be enlightened!
     
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  2. robot

    robot Active Member

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  3. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    I was wondering that myself, what is his game?
    He is either on about to further destabilize the lefties within Libs, or he is mindblowingly stupid.
    I go for the second option....
    All the best for 2019,
    Cats
     
  4. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    I think he's on 4% so a big swing will see him lose his seat. I think it's just a pre-emptive dummy spit.
     
  5. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    He must be cursing the day he said Turnbull must go.
    He is shifting the blame.
    "There's a whiff of bitter, divorced partner in Peter Dutton's latest outburst: if he can't have that prime spot, nobody in his party should. Perhaps it's a pre-emptive strike in anticipation of losing his seat at the next election?"
    From the Letters in the Age.
     
  6. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah that’s interesting Robot! Surely he isn’t just ensuring he can inflict as much damage on his party as he possibly can before he is shown the door by his electorate. Based on his track record I wouldn’t doubt he’d play some tricky and spiteful game!
     
  7. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah thanks Sally, diuretic and cats.

    The lack of traction the hard right faction is failing to gain in coalition has got to be killing him as well. I wonder if a bernardi has reached out to him! Lol
     
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  8. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    I am reading The Road to Ruin. Nothing would surprise me about any of the players in the Turnbull coup fiasco. There were some mad vindictive players and they are still sniping away in the background.
     
  9. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm,
    see I think with Turnbull they would have lost the next election, and you know why?
    Because Turnbull wasn't man enough to follow his persuasion.
    Everyone knows coal for example has no future.
    However Libs/Nationals don't want to hear about it.
    At the end Libs are at their own fault comes election day....
    Reg.
     
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  10. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    I have been saying for decades that this would happen, I remember once having a long discussion about it with my boss about 15 years ago .
    Conservative politics is just another way of saying Capitalism and capitalism does not include any humanitarian concepts it is purely based on financial balance sheets .

    Many times on this forum you will read about people saying we shouldn't have welfare, that we shouldn't have the dole, disability support or unemployment.

    According to that model, the model that the "liberal" COALition are desperately trying to instigate in Australia we would all privately educate our children and then support them until they could get a job. We should all have insurance to cover sickness, workplace accidents, disability etc and enough tucked away to see us through our old age until death. All except the politicians themselves of course.
    The issue is that the control of the economy would be in the hands of business itself, they would self regulate, it is the conservative philosophy that governments shouldn't regulate business, that's socialism, but it should be the market that regulates itself.
    Therefore profit for the wealthiest people would be the driving force of the economy without the inconvenience of having to worry about the impact on the workers, remember them? The people that actually EARN what they get, have zero control as the conservative governments want unions out of the picture, that is the worker's unions not the businesses or employers unions they are most welcome as they contribute to the conservative coffers .
    The conservatives have already just about destroyed any security for the general population from the greed of the "something for nothing" capitalist pigs, destroying any security we had, the privatisation of power generation and distribution, the National ownership of the country's mineral wealth , food security, the demise of the milk, egg, wheat boards that ensured that we always had a sustainable and well managed industry of essential services.
    They have once again moved the options of a good education to the rich allowing more money for nothing to the wealthy while the actual workers must battle on using credit to survive which of course shackles the workers to the grind stone. Keep them poor and needy so they shut the f--- up and get on with filling the coffers of those unwilling to work as they believe they inherited that right.

    Anglicare commissioned a study
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/aus...poor-to-give-to-the-rich-20180404-p4z7sn.html

    This is what is happening, the issue for the conservatives is that the people are waking up to their plan.
    On twitter I see daily more and more small businesses coming across to the left as they realise that the government's long term objective would also destroy them or leave their customer base unable to afford their products.

    What we are hearing in just about every country of the western world is like what you hear at a pig abattoirs, the sounds of the pigs squealing just as their throats are about to be cut.
    I in my youth worked as the slaughter man at Aberdeen Abattoir. I always felt sorry a little for the pigs.
    If however the pig was dutton, abbott, Morrison et al I would have no regrets.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
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  11. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sometimes looking for consensus just won't cut it. You just have to grab them by the scruff of the neck and make them submit.
     
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  12. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Agree 100%.
     
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  13. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    The greatest bull manure spread by the conservatives is this "trickle down economy". The theory, that is what they want us to believe is the theory, they do honestly know it doesn't work, I mean just think about it.

    A company is given tax concessions which the conservatives tell us will trickle down to the workers.

    Now do you think Rinehart or Murdock or Adani etc would pass that money down to the workers ... Or use it to upgrade technology and plant to increase output while cutting back the labour force.

    Not much of a decision for them and those like them as they demonstrate on a daily bases that profit is the end game.

    Capitalism is all about something for nothing for those that can afford anything while it's the chains of debt for those that work and absolute poverty for those displaced by the greed of the wealthiest.

    This is the world that will be further enforced on us if we vote conservative. They of course will hide it all by terrorising us into believing that the communists (unions) will take over, steal our homes etc. Or that we will be invaded by fleets of terrorists in fishing boats who will turn us into a country under Sharia law or overrun by bikies, Sudanese gangs and have to give BACK the land we stole from the true owners of this country.

    Do not let the conservatives destroy our democracy, don't forget, if the poo does hit the fan those with big property, big money and big private security, coupled with a government, police force and military on their payroll will survive .As for the rest of us, watch a few movies like escape from New York or Mad Max to see how we will be living.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  14. billy the kid

    billy the kid Well-Known Member

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    Agree 100%
    Trickle down economy does not work...its bullshit...
     
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  15. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How do you harness capitalism? I mean it does work but man it is a spiteful game of dog eat dog.
    The conservative factions in coalition along with our conservative parties are fearmongering opportunists. It is all socially driven conservatism as far as I see it!
     
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  16. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    We cannot harness pure capitalism any more, it's like perpetual motion, looks good in basic theory but when you think about it it cannot work.
    What we have had up until recently was able to work because the wheel had a little push every now and then.

    Capitalism is only able to survive if we have some input into the system that doesn't cost ANYTHING.

    In the beginning we had colonisation where we got free timber, minerals and slave labor.

    This left the elite wealthy beyond imagination but more importantly it gave the system a good as free, there was minor costs in shipping, but then most of the crews were under paid.

    The system worked under these conditions, but as slavery was faised out the workers started to demand pay. Sweat shops became illegal and the cost of materials increased.

    Wars of conquest and plundering became less and now we have reached the end of these cheap resources.

    We temporarily overcome the slavery and sweatshops by using other developing countries, Taiwan, China, India etc.

    Now these countries have become enlightened and are developing their own economies they are not as cheap and they too want something for nothing, ie profit.

    So our system was left with no free input.

    Now we need something for nothing, it's a closed system, we all need to make a profit.

    Workers wouldn't work if they couldn't have a beer every now and then. Go out to dinner (Maccas) and buy their kids presents.

    Managers wouldn't manage if they couldn't buy that boat, take a holiday to the Greek Islands every now and then.

    Investors wouldn't invest if they couldn't buy that holiday house in the French countryside, etc.

    So therefore we all want to get back more from the system then the value of what we put in, in other words, make a profit.

    Here though is the problem, we are not only the suppliers of the labour, the services and the capital, we are also the consumers in the system.

    So we have to sell the goods and services to ourselves for more than we were paid to make/provide them.

    We also need to pay a government ,a police force, a legal system and defence.

    We are also obliged to provide some support to the disabled, elderly, sick and unemployed.

    It don't work no more .
    So to keep it going we ditch the gold standard and float our money on the market. Now we can virtually print money, we just need to do some fancy accounting.

    We still are not creating new wealth, money for nothing, it just appears that way.

    So we take something that is easy to manipulate, property and we inflate the crap out of it. This gives us more capital, more wealth without doing anything.

    But it was just that, capital, not money, it did allow the government to borrow money, and worse, it allowed home owners to cash in on the increased capital and go further into debt.

    This ties us to the grindstone, no foreseeable way out, can't afford to strike, so we pay back and pay back while the top end collect.

    The real problem is just about to hit, it's that old saying, what goes up ...
     
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  17. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What system do you suggest then?
     
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  18. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, you have a short sighted understanding of how capitalism works. Actually I would suggest that would include socialism, Marxism and any other ism you want to try put your name too.

    Capitalism's exponential growth only comes from the corruption of the system. Fact is that in truest from of capitalism, you get exactly what you put into it just as many other types of economic principles. No welfare, no subsidies, if as a worker you don’t want to work, you contribute nothing you get nothing. As a manager, you manage decent and fair with greater emphasis on reasonable return for effort. People talk about something for nothing but that is factually incorrect. It Is the greed of both worker AND management.

    Now, I could bash on about how this is wrong and that is wrong, but I do agree with parts of the corruption and strongly disagree with parts. The problem is, you don’t recognise what the corruption is and yet you want to support it.
    Welfare for example, is a corruption, You agree with it and to a degree I do as well. BUT if you truly knew the extent you might also stand to change the types and extent.


    Unionism is not the death of capitalism. In reasonable form, unions are great support for the growth and wellbeing of capitalist economies. The problem is when unions try staying relevant by appealing to the greed of the workers. Management will always remain greedy but it is up to the worker as group to determine should they stay or go. When management gets too greedy or too corrupt workers leave.

    Anyway, this anti-establishment ideal you keep banging on just seems pretentious crap. I know you wish changes of social policy and many I can agree with. However, you would not be happy with a more socialised system as it is far more oppressive and that should you disagree we would not be able to discuss it.


    Fact is, this is the regime you live in. You accept all the good and are happy to bash what you don’t agree with. Yet you want to condemn the entire system because you don’t agree with it. Yet the very corruption you agree with gives you the results you don’t like and it is throw it away. A bit like a toy with wheels on it is great because it rolls, but throw it away because it rolls away and you have to chase it.
     
  19. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    I keep reading your posts, are they supposed to make sense? I love the way you decide what I am talking about and criticise it, but it makes no sense to me. What corruption do I agree with, would you like to let me know?
    Most of what I read in your replies is prattle.
    Number 1: if you actually read what I said and not what you assume I said. I didn't say I don't agree with capitalism ,I said it can't work. I did compare it with perpetual motion, again, it's not that I don't agree with it. IT JUST DONT WORK, whether you agree with it or not.
     
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  20. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    Oh so you’re going to try the old comprehension tactic. Unfortunately, doesn't show what you think.



    And obviously, you miss the point. Exactly what I said. You have a limited understanding of capitalism. But hey, you cannot comprehend it, obviously you cannot discuss it...
     
  21. LeftRightLeft

    LeftRightLeft Well-Known Member

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    If you say so.
     
  22. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

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    And I did...
     

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