Honest invitation to the Leftist Liberals -- please, tell us on the Right what you REALLY want!

True.
But I don't think the majority start out that way. Most go into politics because they feel they can actually make a difference.
But when they get to State and Fed level, the system makes them conform to party ideologies, and if they don't, thanks to big donors, IMO, they will get taken out at the next primary election by the National Party or some large PAC group.
Huge money in politics is a big cause for the systematic mess of our politicians. Basically, they are bribed to voting a certain way, or get out spent in the next election.

 

There is an old saying, the only constant in this world is change.
Some will also add, death and taxes.

 

Not a problem.
But I consider myself a conservative liberal. I am sure many of your own will deeply disagree with that, but that is where I'd put myself. Or Libertarian liberal, if that makes sense.
Socially, I care not, what one does, looks like, etc, as long as they don't break laws or infringe upon another's rights.
The laws part is iffy, for I speed, etc. I used to do pot as a youngster. But I'm really talking about laws that infringe upon the rights of others. We should all be free to live how we choose. Regardless if it upsets one's moral belief. The one upset is the one who has an issue. Not the free living person.

 

Why do you think a cheerleader chant be dividers? Cheerleaders are extremely partisan, are they not?

 

I agree 100% on border security and the consequence of hiring illegals. I've said that same thing for better than 10 yrs.
The reason, immigration reform hasn't been much, is there's a good segment of the economy that wants/needs those workers, IMO. Else something would have been done a long time ago.
And IMO, a wall would be mostly useless. As people with motive can circumvent a wall.

The root cause, WHY do THEY want to come here, is what needs to be addressed. Most are coming for a better life. Just like our ancestors did. And when our ancestors came here, it was basically walk or boat in and you got your citizenship.
Obviously, that can't be that simple today, but serious reform is needed for immigrants to get path to citizenship, instead of making them live underground.

 

You don't need to create another 'Foundation' that has totalitarian powers. All you need to do is eliminate derivatives. Furthermore, the market has risks regardless because of the global economy. If you don't like the risks taken by the Wall Street Casino Bosses, get off your lazy butts and do you own investing like I DO. I don't have a 401K. You have no one to blame but yourselves.

 

Did you see that host in the post I replied to? Me either. Your reading comprehension is poor and you continually misrepresent what I say.

 

When my grandparents came here, there was little cost to society. Now you come here and if you can't find work you cost Society 30,000 a year. 100 years ago the portugese and italian could starve, 50 years before that the Irish practically were starved on purpose on these shores. I got no problem with legal immigration. But we are not to let the majority of our immigrants just come from hispanic nations. There are many eastern Europeans on waiting lists. likewise from India and Africa. And just because yoo managed to avoid ICE does not give you a leg up on the legal immigrants waiting to come in. A big no to asylum.

 

Really? Unfortunately it seems to me that the right immediately and almost entirely departed from the request to find issues on which to come together, and instead began bickering and squabbling over what is completely unacceptable to them. As such the purpose of the thread was thereby lost from the start.

I'm going to post my reply in a moment and I will ask that replies honor and adhere to Pollycy's request to try to come together over anything we can AGREE on. Let's see what happens.

 

Ok, here is my list. And in keeping with your hope and intention to come together on something, I will ask that all replies only select any items from my list that you could also get behind in any manner. Bickering over what we each entirely reject as non-starters would be contrary to your stated purpose for this thread. So I'll look for a list of any points you agree with.

1. End all election/voter tricks and lock in an inviolable rule of one citizen; one vote.
2. End Citizens United in order to achieve #1.
3. End all corporate influence in elections and politics including new, tight regulations on lobbying. (Specifics available on request.)
4. End A.L.E.C. in order to achieve #3.
5. Limit campaign contributions to individual citizens and the maximum amount to something the average American would choose to contribute when going all-out, like maybe $500 per candidate.
6. Even better than #5 above, since government is to serve and benefit all Americans, and since politicians spend so much time "dialing for dollars", eliminate all campaign contributions and transition to ONLY funding by a federally managed fund of taxpayer dollars to be distributed equally and fairly by law. The tax would only need to be a flat tax of about $2 per "income person" per year.
7. Claw back a large part of the out-of-control income disparity by increasing the number of tax brackets with new ones that tax income of over, say, $300,000 at 50% up to income over $500,000 which would be taxed at 70% and one more higher bracket of some description. This would shift high business income from the rich, to the business for capital expenditures and business uses.
8. Overhaul the entire healthcare system to end profiteering and waste, including regulation of drug companies. (Make then non-profit only.)
9. End privately owned and run prisons. Their quotas, etc., are counter-productive.
10. End independence of private schools to keep them from becoming superior institutions that are unavailable to the average family which leaves all but the very well off to go only to inferior, underfunded public schools. End federal testing mandates. Ban junk food and soft drink distribution in schools.
11. Pass S.1O82 and HR.2357
12. Rein in college tuitions by means of tax laws that would end greed.
13. Limit oil production to wells already licensed and create disincentives for fossil fuel production and use, while incentivizing alternative energy research and development, all in accordance with a commitment to the Paris Agreement and an effort to surpass it. This would create a HUGE number of jobs. Promotion of windmills on suitable rural lands would benefit rural citizens and their communities. Ban all future nuclear power plant licensing.
14. Increase the minimum wage to $12.50/hour and tie it to the real changes in the cost of living (CPI).
15. Develop a rational immigration policy that humanely accommodates historical realities. Enforce laws already on the books.
16. Overhaul all laws and policies regarding Native Americans rights to ensure them the right to participate in all our freedoms and rights including citizenship as they may choose.
17. End militarization of police and limit police work to protection and defense of public safety as we historically had.
18. Eliminate the cap on FICA income.
19. Ban GMO crops, Roundup, rBST (artificial bovine growth hormone), hydrogenated oil, and HFCS.
20. End the abortion debate by reconfirming Roe v. Wade
21. Ban all firearm magazines that are capable of holding more than 6 rounds, and ban all removable magazines. Improve background checks. Ban all "stand your ground" laws.
22. Break up the biggest banks and regulate them to avoid banking crises.
23. End fake news by reinstalling the Fairness Doctrine and the Equal Time rule, backed by regulations as necessary. The media MUST be a service to the people first.
24. Pass a law governing corporations which makes the production of a "public good" the first purpose of a corporation, and thereby end the effect of the S.C. decision that their first obligation is to create profits for shareholders.
25. Legalize marijuana and pardon all those in prison on marijuana charges if they have no unrelated other criminal conviction that would keep them in prison.
26. Establish a well-funded national center to end cyber crime.
27. End telephone companies' ability to project fake, substituted caller ID numbers. Limit caller IDs to only that of the phone actually making the call, or to allow the number to be blocked. This would probably end scam phone calls overnight.
28. Find ways to crack down on racism including white supremacism.
29. It is illegal or not permissible, -I'm not sure which, to wear a ski mask in many situations, like in banks and stores. Make Muslim "hijabs" equally disallowed.
30. Raise the estate tax back to something reasonable and which would diminish generational wealth. This does not mean a confiscation of estates. It means exactly what I said.
31. Change the definition of the CPI to end substitutions for components when they exceed some level. This has historically only served to "dumb down" the American standard of living, and in a great many cases does not actually reflect any changes in buying habits.
32. The CPI is known to have been created for the purpose of reducing the burden of pensions on corporations, and of S. S. over time. As such the CPI is illegitimate and a fraud. Correct it to actually reflect the real changes in the cost of living.
33. Legislate some form of ranked choice voting.
34. Tighten up separation of church and state laws and enforcement.
35. Find ways to address homelessness.
36. Require confirmation of identity of anyone using a credit card.
37. Re-establish the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. It saved citizens billions during its short life. Bring it back.
38. Pass parental leave legislation.

Now let's see what we can agree on.

 

Okay...what host were you referring to? Anyone in particular? Or all in general?
That post that you "Agreed" with, specifically said "talk radio spew" and "talk radio".
Here is the direct quote from the post..."IMO, 24/7 news and talk radio is a major reason for the disconnect between the actual people in this country. They feed the discontent, because it increases the audience or at least keeps them tuning in."
And you agreed with it. So what "host" did you rule out in your agreement?

 

Sorry. I was quoting 557 from a different topic.
It was his opinion that Rush Limbaugh is more like a "sportscaster than a player".
I disagreed with him. I think Rush Limbaugh is a "divider" just like you have described him.
Now it seems 557 has a different view of "talk radio".
I was just pointing that out to him.
I think your "divider" post is on target.

 

and he was projecting what the right wing is and has always been all about

 

zzz.

How does that make the US a democracy. If you didn't realize the Electoral college is only used for the presidential election.

Fearmongering bs. In other words going back to the social policies that FDR put into place and catching up with the rest of the first world on socioeconomic issues including foremost but not limited to complete education and healthcare reform.

Nonsense

 

Do you actually listen to diverse sources of information? Do you really think Rush is the only one? Your obsession with him is not healthy.

 

I think the reason righties aren't replying yo my post is that they do mostly agree, but if they say that they give away their game of arguing and fighting over every distorted lie and spin about lefties that they can fabricate. IOW they value fighting more than they value uniting on anything as requested @Pollycy in the OP.

 

So under your definition, I am not a "RWer"?

So what am I if I don't want the government to control anything? I want the society to be constrained by its values and belief systems, moreover, I want society to have a common belief system, practices and code of conduct which applies to everyone in society including those at the top. I want society to have social constructs which encourage people to be environmentally savvy, have good relationships with each other, and to define how we share resources when there isn't enough of that resource to go around. I want to discourage behaviour that does not fit within the value system of society. I want a society in which people stop hating each other. I want a society that is not based on greed and hating those who have more than them, however, to take personal responsibility for their own situation. I want a society which isn't reliant on a single living human with all the power, i.e true equality.

Which ideology do I fit under?

 

Individuals don't have the ability to negotiate the terms of that social contract as individuals, therefore we are not free. "We" as society are not individuals, therefore it creates a totalitarian nightmare which is given legitimacy by "society" and then carried out by nobility (politicians).

Basically, he starts from the correct premise that individuals are free without society, and then adds society in order to take away that freedom.

 

Asylum was NOT mentioned.
But I can guarantee you 1 thing. Those that have been here 10, 15, 20, 30 yrs, are NOT going to be deported.
So you figure out how to get them citizenship or not. But don't whine about illegals when nothing is proposed to do with those who have spent most or perhaps even theri entire lives here already.
And the part about the workers needed are mostly in the farming/produce area. Where US citizens won't work.

 

Are you sure your not a Republican?

 

It's a cute guarantee, but it''s not up to you. They probably won't, so they'll just be here illegally until they are arrested, and then get deported back to wherever they came from. Or they stay illegally and die as illegals.

 

That all sounds great and there is always enough time. Problem is, money, and its root, the people that control it vs those that have so little. There are still the dimwits that support TRUMP and the ULTRA Right wing as if, those republicans running it give a dam about the working class. That is a whole separate issue and education based.

Remove those 20% and you have the real issues, money rich vs poor. Many are still in the middle on issue and always will be, but that isnt the problem. Give a republican worker that goes to church each and every week, lives by the bible, Works hard, raises his family and makes 60K a year between him and his wife, now give him the 180K a year he should have vs inflation increases that have happened since 1980 and he would be a happy person. So would any Liberal and the issue that divide us would be just chat.

Why ? Because we would all be enjoying life, taking long vacations, buying cars, bikes, houses, clothes, and having fun. Today, you have nothing but a little time to watch the news. On there is trouble, the divide, so you pick and choose how you feel.

All the money was stripped away by the Reagan Admin. when they gave the extremely wealthy a huge tax cut that was to be temporary. If I have a 2M corp and make 200k a year, pay full benefits, and my workers at a great rate. I would bring home 70K a year, my workers would bring home 10K each putting me at 7 times their rate. I would even have a company party, picnic, etc. because I was PART OF THEM. Today, that same company - Owner makes 700K a year, brings home 600K and all the workers (immigrants and what is now - poor people) bring home 15k a year. I am light years from them and will continue that spread until I am FORCED, like FDR did in the 30s. To pay a hefty tax that will go back to the working class.

Think about the fact that before FDR and after Reagan, the rich paid very little in tax, both times things only got worse. Greed will always win when possible, someone out there will punish people for their own benefit, I have seen it first hand. Worked at 2 places like that. I also worker at the good places in the 80s and a little into the 90s. The owners actually shook your hand, they liked you, you were friends and co workers.

 

Point to one poster that is not RW in this thread that is asking for free stuff.
Otherwise, why the intentional untruth? Is that typical of RWers?

 

This could have been a GREAT thread if people would have just stuck to the subject and simply replied on what they could agree with. I guess that is expecting too much.