Existence: What is the point?

That depends on what you call sapience. I grow 2000 bedding plants a year of various types. I know that I can prolong the flowering of most by removing dead blooms which produce seeds. The plant 'knows' that it needs seeds to propagate itself, so it grows more flowers which turn to seed. This continues until the season changes. Plants have diversified to attract different types of pollinators. These pollinators have learned to differentiate between plants by shape size and colour. Plants are not just pretty to look at. They learn, solve problems.

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/02/160221-plant-science-botany-evolution-mabey-ngbooktalk/
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ligent-sentient-book-brilliant-green-internet

 

Pretty sure knowing more than any member of Homo Sapiens possibly could qualifies.

who the hell cares

 

Well, the plants do, and the people I grow them for. Most plants live together in peaceful co-existence. Some even assist others with propagation. Perhaps they're more intelligent than Homo Sapiens.

 

Then go burble away at them, and stop wasting my time.

 

Insults will get you everywhere.

 

From the earliest of time man has come to the limit of the knowledge and science available to him at the time. Atoms were theorised by the Greeks - and others in India centuries before Christianity. The Egyptians and Greeks were adept and knowledgeable about medicine - in the same timescale, - and, the workings of the body - even to the recognition of cancers. But they were limited to the knowledge, science of the times and lacked modern facilities. Had they had these man would probably have been disease free by this time, living far longer.
From the earliest of times man has said 'it can't be done/it can't be so'. But in many cases it has since been done and it has been so.
What will new sciences show us as time progresses? Quantum Physics/General relativity/Quantum theory? New sciences will come along
We have a century of testing for abiogenesis using the knowledge we have. Is that knowledge sufficient to prove or disprove abiogenesis. I've no idea. Neither has science as we know it.

Existence? We exist because the earth is amenable to our life type. In a 1000 years of using earths resources unwisely, of polluting the atmosphere, of changing the climate perhaps man himself will find his body 'evolving' to cope with the conditions. More likely man will have ceased to exist. There is no external reason for our existence but that we make for ourselves. We are products of Gaia - mother Earth.

 

Time for me to take a break. Its tough enough, being outnumbered by hostile, anti-christian bigots, without having to deal with biased mods. If i explain to a poster why i am avoiding them.. because of needling, provocation, constant ad hom & straw men, and they report me and my posts are deleted or myself infracted, why should i contribute in such a forum?

It shows the depths of bias and hostility we have descended to, in the public discourse. Common sense, reason, and civility take a back seat to agenda driven propaganda.

If the mods here do not want or appreciate my perspective, i can pick up my toys and leave. I know this is a predominantly progressive forum, just like most human institutions now. But if minority opinions are censored, or minority posters hindered, all that will be left is a progressive echo chamber.

I have offered thoughtful, intelligent, provocative threads and themes, and most of my threads continue for years. But if they upset the desired narrative, you can censor me, and become an exclusive propaganda voice for the religion of Progressivism

 

Can't understand why anyone should report you. I disagree with your views as you will be aware, but you are entitled to them. Continue your search for the Divine. Use Philosophy or any other means. . I honestly don't think you will find that existence is any more than 'existence'. The meaning of our lives is survival and the purpose in our lives is found in the way we choose to live. In the end it matters not. We die. Will what we have done helped others along the way? Live on in their memories?. Or will we simply be forgotten?

Science shows that we can absorb energy and we can transfer energy. Energy never dies or is created. It simply transforms. Into what? Suppose that energy transforms into a spiritual being? Suppose that's what seemingly genuine mediums are contacting? WHOA DOWN. I'm having a brainstorm. Yet prove me wrong?

 

Stand your ground. Real people have real values. The ones who want to turn the world upside down think there's more to gain by throwing a monkey wrench into the machinery and siding with the radical rebels who don't care who gets hurt as long as their goals are met. We're not going to let them have their way - be like Trump.

Alleviation of angst is through growth. Whether it's via God-based or Godless is not of paramount concern. There's always room for increased awareness and generation of new perspectives that yield a new vantage point. That room may seem diminishing if a book by Lawrence Kraus is taken at face value. The universe is not set up to foster the existence of humans; we are a cosmic accident, an exception to the way it works. However, Kraus is wrong because his analysis is based on material physicality. The double slit experiment shows that something else is involved. Rudolph Steiner was right: we are born into the universe and are not just a product of earthly biology, not having an existence confined to the span between fertilized egg and lifeless cadaver. More stunning info on that to follow when I get a chance to throw it all across.

 

What is existence?
Is it this world we're in now, our consumerism history of imperialism institutionalised racist culture.
We have a history of being scarred glorifying those who scarred.
Is that existence?!

Energy is like a wave.

It's in all of us.
It's us, our being.

 

Existence: What is the point?
The point is in time and space. We are at that point. It is now.

 

Asking the question, "what's the point of existence?" is a flawed question. It's predicated on the idea that something created existence. That there has to be a reason or justification for your existence from "out there."

But existence cannot be created from nothing. Existence just exists. You are here because you're here.

The purpose of your life isn't because of God. The purpose of your life isn't to do your duty. The purpose of your life isn't to reproduce. The purpose of your life isn't your country. The purpose of your life isn't other people's lives.

The purpose of your life is your life. You justify your life on your own terms. You create your own purpose and reasons for living. Do what makes you happy. Because this life is wonderful and should be lived to the fullest.

 

Random mutations have been documented, but such changes are not of the magnitude evident in the fossil record. The concept is that enough changes over a longer period of time have a cumulative effect that produces a different organism.

Right, as far as I know. The ToE stems from logical interpolation of changes between available fossil samples exhibiting a recognizable lineage. The gaps are grounds for controversy, but do you have a plausible alternative? Let me guess: Genesis Chapter 1 and 2:1-2:3, all priestly subterfuge and tangled up by an ancient editor. But then the Jhwhist is given his say in Gen 2:5, what do you do with that and later, Noah's boatload of everything but the dinosaurs?

Evolutionary change should at least be sufficient to point towards production of a new creature.

No more gobbledygook than your devolving junkie. Sometimes we don't seem to be speaking the same language.

 

Info from 1920. Some stuff may seem boring at first. Christianity is largely an appropriation by those who did not experience it in a previous lifetime. Greek and Roman cultures were better able to adopt it because they were previously incarnated in Asia where they were influenced by Oriental wisdom.

Many Americans were also previously incarnated in non-Christian Asia where they absorbed a deep spiritual tradition that neglected or downplayed physical matters. Hence some Americans found Christian Science attractive. The unfamiliar materialistic lifestyle of settlers made many souls feel out-of-place; some of them resorted to Sectarianism.

Many Europeans were previously incarnated as Native Americans who had a strong pantheistic outlook (“The Great Spirit”). Others were previously incarnated in southern lands during early Christian centuries and migrated northward, contributing to the mix. Former Barbarians among them retained a predisposition towards violence.

In America and Europe, belief in the materialistic basis of existence prevails along with rejection of the idea of a world shaped by soul and spirit.

[The opposite ends of Creation are energy/substance (Ahrimanic) and consciousness/spirit (Luciferic). Neither one can accomplish much without the other. Advocating one while denigrating the other is the height of folly.]

Ahrimanic influence is a necessary part of our evolution, but it is driving an increasing growth rate of mechanization accompanied by diminishing human control [due to high-tech automation and AI]. The amount of work done by non-humans (machines) has increased in multiples of that done by humans since horsepower became horseless.

Civilization is risking loss of control. In the event of war [unrestrained conflict] the outcome [fate of humanity] is determined by [programmed] bombardment [scenarios]. Neither science nor outdated [naïve] religious beliefs [based on corrupted or misunderstood scripture] can provide prevention. The ongoing trend can become overwhelming if commitment to [valid] spiritual values does not prevail.

Ahriman wants to hasten the turnover of incorporeal souls to massively increase embodiment. Lucifer wants the opposite, no new births and just a one-way ticket to “heaven” for all departures. Oriental wisdom also favors a cutoff of reincarnation.

The fourth post-Atlantean root race existed from about 747 BC to 1400 AD. We are in the fifth one [which by interpolation ends around 2050 AD]. In the sixth one all humans will end up in spirit form [around 3500 AD?; a shift is in the making; the earth is in for another flip-switch?].
_______________________________________________________________

The painful consequences of touching a burning-hot object are tangible enough, but the link between cause and karmic effect is more obscure because the effect is remote, and the span of separation is usually a gross amount of time. Yet an adherence to free will awareness is involved in both scenarios. When karmic retribution is due, transgressors do not reward themselves with favorable starting circumstances in the next lifetime. The sensible option is to avoid racking up dirty laundry if there is risk of being held accountable.

A being’s existence involves interactions of time, space, energy, matter, and consciousness that seem to go beyond the bounds of objective physical reality.

Scientists thought they had nearly everything figured out after the discovery of atomic structure. However, the stunning results of double slit experiments done in 1920-1930 disqualified materialism as the basis of existence. When the registered events of impulses passing through a slit are subjected to conscious awareness, the output pattern becomes mostly just 2 bands instead of the usual numerous ones typical of an interference pattern of 2 wave sets interacting. Light (an example of waveform energy) has the inherent characteristic of wave/particle duality and makes a conditional transition from waveform energy to particle substance (photons). Erasure of the registered data (a recording of the detection/measurement at the slit) before it is subjected to conscious awareness results in production of the usual interference pattern.

Action consistent with data parameters is a process of adherence to program logic. The latter implies a connection to intelligence and purpose, IAW a being, albeit functionally omnipresent yet pervasively intangible and possibly very remote (the programmer is invisible to the program).

Energy is intrinsic in matter, as evident in high-rate atomic vibrations. The logic acting conditional to the shaping of material reality is invisible and unknown. Among many possible world scenarios, who or what influences the selection (God? The Logos? The larger consciousness system? The universal mind? The consensus of universal belief?)?

Per Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle, a particle’s momentum or its location can be determined, but not both. Electrons within atoms do not exist as distinct orbiting entities but as cloudlike effects. Material existence has a nonmaterial, subjective basis. Tom Campbell’s viewpoint: the present is a virtual reality assembled from one microsecond to the next according to probability factors.

A fly’s awareness in the room where a quantum computer is being robotically assembled ruins the computer. A human viewing the separate video recording of the robotic assembly of a quantum computer that has been working OK ruins the computer.

Subatomic particles exhibit behavior that defies the standard laws of physics. In quantum mechanics, entanglement is characteristic of paired particles that have acquired a fixed orientation with respect to each other. That orientation is maintained even though the particles may become separated by an unlimited amount of distance. One particle responds at FTL speed to a shift in the other.

Science has determined that a limited percentage of quarks are popping in and out of existence. Where are they going to/coming from? Rudolph Steiner perceived the dying of an old world and the simultaneous creation of its new replacement. In 1920 he declared the law of conservation of matter and energy to be false. Reality is the net effect of a balance between dissolution and accretion. Astounding!

A choice is available to everyone: try to become informed and up-to-date or be indifferent or unaware like the masses of manipulated people (turkeys) that have been stuck in a mental rut for the last 88+ years.

Welcome to the future.

 

Perhaps existence has no point. Perhaps it is round.

 

I had several interesting discussions over the holiday break with a bunch of old friends and decided to geek out over it a little bit. I do qualitative research for work, so I started collecting quotes from people while discussing the concept of the meaning of life and then coded them, just like I would for work, to look for patterns. I spoke to 23 people overall, friends and family, and let it sit on a shelf for a while so I could come back to it and make sure my codes still made sense.

7 atheists
12 theists (2 Wiccans, 1 Muslim, 7 Christians)
3 agnostics/"spiritual but not religious"/preferred not to identify.

A couple of minority views:
2 people mentioned being unconcerned about the question -- that it wasn't something they thought about that often and that they found discussions about the meaning of life "stuffy and tweedy." They preferred to simply live and didn't see much point in abstract questions of meaning.

5 people advocated some kind of egoism: the idea that the meaning of life was purely about self-interest or hedonism. 2 of these people were atheists and the other 3 were theists, so it didn't seems like belief or nonbelief was a factor. Only 1 person mentioned egoism as the sole meaning. The other 2 also appealed to one or more of the major themes below.

The major themes:
The other ideas of meaning centered on three major themes, and keep in mind that most people provided more than one answer.

Service to 'something greater' - in some cases this was God, but in other cases this was abstract "duty" or service to society or to nature (with the Wiccans).
Creative contributions - to express oneself in a way that makes an impact on the world, no matter how small, and leaves it a better place.
Finding peace - struggling through the frustrations of existence in order to find or forge one's place in it and make peace with reality, warts and all.

Hope that helps.

 

You're born
You pay taxes
You die

All there is to it.

 

And the same changes, quantitative and qualitative, over a shorter period of time wouldn't produce the same result because...?

Since it's not my theory, I don't need one, obviously.

That's exactly what drug addiction and other self-destructive behavior does, since it is invariably dehumanizing, both to the perp and, absent divine intervention, to his or her progeny - which is the most plausible explanation for God's extermination of all those people in the OT.

 

It should, I would think, but then the question is, has it been observed or duplicated, and if so, perhaps the outcome might be a deformed creature.

Another interesting scenario is the stages of zygote development wherein the embryo goes from invertebrate to reptile to mammal to primate.

 

Has what been observed or duplicated?

Sure, just like it might be in nature. So what?

 

The same changes, qualitative or quantitative, over a shorter period of time.

If it has to be accelerated artificially, the type of outcome could be unexpected.

 

No, the question is why they wouldn't be.

Stop the presses.

 

Maybe they have been observed to some extent. Some babies are born without ears, eyes, limbs, etc. Check into what Monsanto did to accelerate mutations in wheat in order to get a good choice for max yield. They hit it with almost everything they thought might do the trick (mutagens, teratogens, and various other chemicals/toxins). We don't hear anything about the other odd malformations that were discarded.
The workhorse variety of wheat currently in use has an unusual accumulation of chromosomes, about 40 or so. Some time ago, maybe a few decades, the count was about half of that. The ancient parent of wheat had only a few chromosomes, but gained some after hybridization in the wild.

I don't have a good handle on the issue of why ToE isn't convincingly demonstrable via accelerated genetic manipulation.

IMO, ToE remains a viable theory but should not be considered factual. Regarding the distinct irregularities in human evolution, some of the abrupt changes appear very unnatural and suggest mysterious intervention by unknown manipulating agents or involvement of unusual cosmic energy disturbances.

 

Existence: What is the point?
Contrary to what most people believe, existence is not limited to the physical world you see around you. Studies in Near Death Experiences since 1975 have proven that our physical existence is only a part of the much more complex multi-dimensional reality we all experience in totality. In fact, NDEs have forced us to recognize that our physical bodies are not really our true selves, but temporary vehicles we inhabit that allow us to function in a physical realm our true bodies, made of pure conscious energy(spirit), are unable to interact with alone. Our spiritual body (soul) is assumed to be capable of existing forever--having eternal life. So, the question arises, "What does one do with eternity?" From this new perspective, it's easy to see that with all the time that exists at your disposal, one has every opportunity to experience everything imaginable & much beyond imagining. The soul can cross into & experience many dimensions of reality--many parallel realities, live there for lifetimes of experience, and return with memories of all those experiences as a continually changing foundation for personal learning. We are all such souls, and Earth is one of millions of choices available to all of us, to live in and experience. But whenever a soul leaves the spirit world & enters another reality, they must conform to the rules & restrictions within that reality in order to survive there & experience it fully. One element of that transition is forgetting about our home in the spirit world for a time while we concentrate on the reality we are living in now. Immediately upon the demise of our current physical body, our soul leaves that spent body & returns to the spirit world to review & learn from that experience, then begin planning the next non-spiritual excursion. From the Earthly viewpoint, such cyclical repetitions from physical birth, life, death, re-entry into the spirit world, life reviews, learning, planning a new life, birth, etc., is called "reincarnation." And regardless of whether one believes in reincarnation or not, if they are here on Earth, they are participants. So, in summary, the point of existence is to experience different realities, learn from them, and grow in wisdom & knowledge as a spiritual form we call the soul, until we become godlike in both knowledge & wisdom. But even that's not the end.

 

This is as valid a belief as any other. The evidence seems a little far fetched, but if a person's experiences corroborate their beliefs, who am i to argue against it?

Some of the extrapolations seem speculative.. becoming 'godlike', or reincarnation, or having 'memories' of pre-existence, but if that is what a person believes, who has a better idea?

We are born with the weight of an infinite necessity, according to Camus. Explaining our existence can become all consuming. We have to reconcile our lives, somehow.

Beliefs, opinions, speculations, and guesses abound in this primordial angst. We live. We die. But we don't know how or why. Everybody believes something. Everyone has to do their own believing and their own dying.