Honest invitation to the Leftist Liberals -- please, tell us on the Right what you REALLY want!

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Pollycy, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    As a shareholder I've never received a copy of any corporation's constitution or its Bylaws.

    Owned by the public to no consequence other than sharing a bit of the stock price changes. Keep in mind that buying shares of XYZ Corporation from your broker has no impact on the corporation. It's only about making money off the fears of other stockholders who sell at the wrong time, or making money off shares that you bought from the market maker when the share price rises.

    A pretty irrelevant question.

    They don't exploit workers. And they are collectively owned on an equal basis by the workers. That is socialism.

    Only in your mind.
     
  2. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    we on the left want less tax cuts for the rich, more tax cuts for the middle class, single payer, less foreign outsourcing and foreign imports..... that should be enough of a start

    a Trump branded wall of China is off the table unless dems get something big like DACA
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  4. BestViewedWithCable

    BestViewedWithCable Well-Known Member

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    Democrats will help America for 30 pieces of sliver
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  5. BestViewedWithCable

    BestViewedWithCable Well-Known Member

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    30 pieces of silver
     
  6. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    1/2 the country doesn't pay a nickel in federal income tax. Do you want that number to be 60-70%?

    The top 5% pays 60% of the taxes.

    What exactly do you call 'single payer' and how do you think it will benefit us?

    I agree on the foreign outsourcing and imports, including importing labor whether it be H1B visas or illegals. But you do realize that jacking up the tax rates 'for the rich' (which I assume you include corporations) will do nothing but drive more foreign outsourcing and thus more imports.

    Democrats/liberals/socialists need to realize we live in a global market which means global competition, and higher taxes won't lead to prosperity, just dependence on the global competition since you've priced yourself out of the market 'cause you don't like rich folks.

    Get rich or die trying, but quit whining about other's success.
     
  7. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    your not thinking properly, the issue is 1\2 the country not making enough income to pay federal tax, raise the min wage

    I am more concerned with people like Trump not paying a federal tax on all their income - that doesn't make them smart imo
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump will stop hurting America for 30 pieces of sliver
     
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  9. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    Even though I'm a Conservative, I do agree with you about the need for single-payer (IF it is done correctly), and I definitely want the U. S. Tax Code to be overhauled completely to do away with all the write-off's and other 'goodies' for the über-rich. My big 'spear-tip' initiative right now is that Americans should have the right to have medical prescriptions filled in overseas pharmacies and legally shipped to addresses here in the United States. All of us, Left and Right, are being raped to death on the price of prescription drugs, thanks to 'Big Pharma'....
     
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  10. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    totally agree, in fact many meds should be OTC
     
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  11. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    You are not thinking at all. Wages will rise when there are more jobs than workers. We don't need a minimum wage. Common sense should tell you that if we got rid of 25 million illegal aliens taking your jobs, then wages would rise exponentially without the need for fake minimums.

    Furthermore, people who don't pay taxes shouldn't have the right to vote. They need to feel the pain just like taxpayers then maybe they would give up the free gimme dats. I don't care if it's 2%, they need to pay something.
     
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  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    you leave in a dream world, there is already more jobs then workers, just corporations are sending most jobs overseas so they can pay even less then the min wage

    time to address foreign outsourcing as a nation security issue, build a fireWALL, republicans like walls right? this one one even cost anything, just pull the plug
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  13. ziggyfish

    ziggyfish Active Member

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    Does not mean you don't have to abide by these Bylaws. It's like very few people have read the criminal code, however, everyone still has to abide by those laws.

    Your talking about stock, not shares. They are two different things. Stock market I don't agree with. Company shares I agree with though. Maybe that's something we agree on.

    How so? Why should someone with no interest in the business be able to dictate how that business is run? Isn't that the very problem you socialist are trying to solve? Simple question.

    Read the Kane an Abel story in the Bible, you may learn something.

    But your definition of socialism explicitly says that it's not socialism if the corporation is privately own. So is your definition of socialism wrong, or?

    Corporations are collectively owned, are they not? If I do twice as much work as you do, should I not own twice as much of the organization as you do? Isn't that more equal, than having a system where someone who does 1% of the work gets the same as someone who does 80% of the work?
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  14. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Bunk, unless the requirements are standard "boiler plate" and only requires common sense, like, you shall not vote in the name of another person as that is fraud.

    My talking is about shares of stock. Your "distinction" here suggests you really don't know the subject. You'll have to "explain" this to me.

    "Dictate"? Nobody should and nobody does because this is how capitalism works and laws support it. And now you'll have to spell out what you mean by "isn't that the very problem you socialists are trying to solve?"

    Co-ops are run by the member-workers. So please explain yourself.

    You're trying to spin it, and now I'll bet you'll try to not understand me. ... Private ownership of corporations means usually that workers are hired and exploited for private profit. Worker ownership of worker co-ops means no one is exploited.

    Of course not. You should get paid twice as much, but why should you have more control of the business than anyone else? There's no logic to it. It threatens democracy on the job and presents a loophole by which people can take control of the business to make it capitalist again.

    "Gets the same" what? Are you trying to move the goalpost here?
     
  15. ziggyfish

    ziggyfish Active Member

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    A corporation's constitution can be designed in any way so long as it complies with the compulsory rules set down by the state or federal legislature. You will have to give me the state in which your company is registered to give you more details.

    I know a lot about corporate law because I am a co-founder and a shareholder in many corporations. I am also a volenteer in many organizations in which I have had to study the by-laws and constitution.

    Stock are paid in full, while shares are not. Shares are paid in equal amounts, while the stock is not.

    This one we will leave for after you have answered the rest of the questions.

    Yes please do. Explain what you mean by member-workers.

    If I decide to leave corporation, should I still receive dividends even if the work I did is still adding value to the company? For example, if I introduce a production method which allows the company to produce twice as much as before, should I still receive dividends from that work I performed even though I no longer work at the company?

    But Co-ops are private corporations, please explain your distinction between co-ops and private corporations? Also, define private.

    My definition of private is anything that is not owned by the state.

    Ok, now a little game theory. What's the dominant strategy here?

    You have been moving goalpost all debate, why can't I? Aren't we both equal?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  16. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    How can you own shares in a corporation while not owning stock in the corporation when shares are represented by shares of stock? It's like owning a car while not owning an automobile.

    I not only sold stock as a broker but also spent 2 years working on the San Francisco exchange as a market maker.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
  17. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is using false I.D. a crime? There goes a majority of them. I know crossing our border illegally is a misdemeanor the 1st time. How do you count that?
     
  18. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    You are right -- and even in a third-world country like Mexico, many products that are prescription-only in the United States are sold over-the-counter! I lived in El Paso, Texas for a couple of years and it was very common practice for Americans to cross the border, buy whatever they wanted in Ciudad Juarez, and drive back. It was also very common for Americans to get medical services in Juarez -- especially dental work!

    Surely if even the most radical Democrats and right-wing Conservative zealots (like me) can agree on just one thing it is that prescription drugs need to be shipped to us from foreign countries of our choice! ALL of us in the U. S. -- Left and Right -- are being RAPED by Big Pharma....
     
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  19. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Totally agree. My parents moved to Yuma, Az after retirement and frequently crossed the border to get dental work, prescriptions, and so forth. Once, my father got a top of the line pair of hearing aids for $2000 less than he could get the same product on this side of the border.

    With so many Americans in that "older" bracket, I think we need to open it up for a bit of free market competition.
     
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  20. ziggyfish

    ziggyfish Active Member

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    Not all shares are stock but all stock are shares. Often corporations have a stock pool, in which a specific number of shares are allocated to the stock market. Again this is often detailed in the corporation's charter and many publicly available documents about the company.

    To illustrate the difference between stock and shares a bit better. Say company A has 10 shares available. Which means that each share is with 10% of the company. Let's say Person A is a 20% shareholder, therefore Person A as 2 shares. Let's say 3 of the 10 shares available are put in a stock pool. And person B buys 1 stock, he currently owns 10% of the Company A.

    Now let's say Company A increases the number of shares available to 100. Person A now has 20 shares (still 20% of shares), while Person B still only has 1 share (which is now worth 1%).

    The fact you didn't know about company constitutions and bylaws, says a lot about your knowledge and experience in corporate law, and your true understanding of the stock market.
     
  21. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Those are called "issued shares". Those that are then actually sold are the "outstanding shares".

    No, the total number of authorized shares is established in a company's articles of incorporation. A number of those may them be issued, some to the corporate Treasury, and some to the stock market.

    There is no such thing as a "stock pool".

    Not valid. Increasing the authorized shares requires a vote by shareholders. And increasing the authorized shares doesn't increase the number of shares held by anyone. You're thinking of a stock split. In this case you are talking about a "10 for 1" split, and all shareholders' number of shares held would increase by a multiple of ten. Person A's 2 shares become 20, and personB's 1 share becomes 10.

    The fact that you are trying to pretend to know something about stock says a lot about your "honesty" in debating. No wonder you love Trump. Your whole story here screams an ignorance of the subject but an eager willingness to try to make it up as you go. You probably have never even owned a share of stock in your life judging from your words.
     
  22. ziggyfish

    ziggyfish Active Member

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    All of that is wrong.
     
  23. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    LOL!!!!!!
     
  24. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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  25. YourBrainIsGod

    YourBrainIsGod Well-Known Member

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    Well, you’re an anti-American socialist communist that wants to destroy America and all of Western civilization and thought.

    At least that what everyone here tells us.

    The good news is they are probably not real people.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019

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