The Bible

Name just one.

 

Right. Back to "Jews obviously lie to and deceive gentiles". Straight out of the darkest Middle Ages, this one.

I'm not a rabbi. Am I lying too about what's written in the Torah? Do rabbis lie to and deceive non-rabbi Jews, as well? Or am I a lying rabbi claiming not to be a rabbi? Am I an atheist woman deceived by rabbis, or a rabbi deceiving himself he's an atheist woman? Um...the possibilities are almost endless...am I me at all?

Anyway, from your point of view, seems the site you linked to is also the work of lying rabbis, since it contradicts your assertions, starting with the title. It's the history of the English Bible, not the Latin version. There's a very helpful (or is it "deceivingly helpful rabbinical style"?) hyperlink in the text to a brief timeline of Bible translations history, where it says, I quote (my emphasis and lively colored fonts):

https://greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/index.html#timeline

 

This is a translation. Not an interpretation.

I named one. Zoroaster.

A trinity is not just the Christian interpretation of a trinity. .A trinity is a group of three associated with each other. The one I quoted came before the Christian one so I guess the Christian interpretation is adapted from that.

Christian teaching is often adapted from the OT teaching. And OT teaching is often adapted from previous beliefs.

 

I asked you, "how do YOU use the term "saved?" Or else what "saved" means to you, if anything. I didn't want you to tell me what it means to Fundamentalists, because Fundamentalists are not YOU!

Well you said that the term saved, "as used by fundamentalist Christians implies that one is already saved = has got a pass into heaven." I responded with, "not only implied, this is what we believe." Did you miss this?

Do you have faith that your family loves you?

In order for this part of Matt 6 to apply to Tim Tebow, he would have to be a hypocrite. Is he in fact a hypocrite?

 

You mean not all those who believe in God do ANY good works? Then that is proof that they aren't saved. Simple.

Do these people tell you that they don't know what Jesus means by "Good works?"

Again, faith gets one into heaven. That comes FIRST! After this, wanting to do good works will follow. Good works are not required, but the WANTING TO DO good works doesn't come about without faith.

 

So all the atheists who do good works must have faith?

 

You talked over my entire post and once again ask questions that have been answered in my post.

That you pretend not understand how Matt 6 applies to Tebow is disingenuous and stupid.

 

One again you are talking yourself in circles and contradicting yourself in a desperate denial/avoidance behavioral pattern.
1) I did not say "any" good works - even Hitler did some good works.

2) You just stated that those who do not do good works are not saved = salvation and works are connected = contradiction of Sola Fide.

In one sentence you say that one is not saved without works - in the next sentence you claim that works are not required for salvation.

This is a complete contradiction.

 

When I read these threads about being saved, what God wants, and so forth I am constantly reminded of the question "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

 

From what I get from the teachings of christ is that salvation, being saved, involved a rebirth of some sort, in consciousness itself. Perhaps the ego gets bumped off to the side and the spirit of the creator enters into and becomes a greater part of human consciousness?

So, when this revolution in consciousness happens, this rebirth presents to the world a person who will do good works, and will not consciously sin. As christ told those people, "be perfect even as your father in heaven is perfect". He must have been speaking of this reborn state of consciousness that occurs in salvation, in being saved.

And since the creators of the first church, and what came after it never were actually saved, or reborn, and never experienced this change in consciousness, we ended up with a church that was filled with evil acts by its top dogs. And that would easily logically explain why the RCC looked as if it was run by demons for 2000 years. Or just petty, greedy, malevolent little human beings. Like your typical politician throughout history. ha ha

 

i

That is a load of BS for the simple reason that if John Rogers had an original Hebrew/Greek language Bible in 1537 where is it today?

The plain fact is that no Bible existed before the committee wrote it in Latin in the 680s-690s. There were bits and pieces of various manuscripts floating around but the Bible as we now know it did not exist until the committee wrote it. And they based all of the biblical stories off of the Ten Commandments found in what is now Exodus chapter 34. That is why the stories flow seamlessly from Genesis to Revelation (excluding the Apocrypha). The main reason they wrote the Bible as a book was to counter the Koran that Uthman's committee had wrote in the 640s.

 

Any particular reason?

 

I have previously asked you if you have faith that your family loves you and asked you if Tim Tebow is a hypocrite? Surely you can't be serious! I have to say, that's one HELL of a dodge! This is evidence that you are slowing down and coming swiftly towards your limit in being able to debate me. Of course, we've been here before you and I!

 

Well then what the hell do you mean by, "not all those who believe in God do good works?" How many good works do they NOT do?

No, I stated that those who literally do not do ANY good works are evidently not saved by faith!

No, in one sentence I say "faith gets one into heaven. That comes FIRST! After this, wanting to do good works will follow." You are correct, that in the next sentence I say that works are not required for salvation. They don't NEED to be required, because those who are saved by faith will WANT to do them anyway.

 

Are the atheists wanting to do the good works because Jesus taught them?

 

You're getting "trinity" from this?

 

Why not? Jesus the preacher has much to teach us.

Yes. You're simply thinking in terms of the Christian Trinity, and that is under dispute. No-one actually knows what is meant by Father, Son and Holy Spirit. 3 beings? 1 being? Your quess is as good as any other. Just because you're taught to believe one unproven theory doesn't make it true.
The idea of a 'trinity' varies with different religions. .All are, in context, valid 'trinities'.

How about this.

Jesus, the High Priest (Hebrews 4) died to set men free from sin. In the OT a fugitive who had killed 'without intent' could flee to a city of refuge and be safe. When the contemporary High Priest died the man was free to return home without facing any accusation.

Christianity has adapted Jewish beliefs in so many ways. Going back further Judaism has adapted many beliefs, rituals, festivals and objects from earlier civilisations., Egypt, Greece, Babylon and Persia.

 

You talking over my posts and asking question that have already been answered is not debate. It is avoidance and denial.

What does one's faith that one's family loves someone have to do with whether or not Sola Fide is contradicted by Jesus ? = ZERO

Obviously, the behavior that Jesus is describing is that which Tebow exhibits.

And once again you have avoided responding to my post because your brain is shutting down and trying to avoid discussion of the teachings of Jesus in related to the topic and your self contradiction.

 

What a stupid question "how many good works do they not do" . It is just as much about not doing bad things and obviously there is no specific number of good vs bad deeds given. Obviously - to anyone who is not a complete idiot - doing the "Will of the Father" requires Something. Something is not Nothing. Being more righteous than the Pharisees requires something. Good works includes not doing bad things.

You can repeat "faith gets one into heaven" all you like - this does not make it true and this is not what the Jesus of Matt says.

You have already agreed that Jesus claims that works are required to get into heaven = "the will of the Father" = doing the things proscribed by Jesus/ not doing the bad things.

Now you claim that works are not needed to get into heaven.

This is a direct contradiction.

 

Yes. I think it is somewhat absurd for people to argue about minor theological nuances with great confidence when they are both talking about something that is made up.

 

Many of them. One does not have to believe in God - to believe in some of the teachings of Jesus.

 

I have three words for you: Dead Sea scrolls.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Dead-Sea-Scrolls

The Jewish Tanakh - both the Hebrew and the Greek versions - long predate Christianity and the Christian Bible. Not in form of a modern book, granted, but as scrolls. By the way, only hand written scrolls are used in synagogues even today, not books. Printed books are for private use.

The discovery of the Gnostic Gospels, and traces of bitter polemics in the Church Fathers' writings regarding what they saw as heresies, are proof of incredibly rich and diverse early Christian traditions, most of them lost when the young Church decided to adopt Irenaeus' theology. The Bible as we know it today is just a compilation of earlier works. We know that because all those works, together with many other documents now lost, are mentioned not only by Church Fathers, but also by pagans in anti-Christian writings, long before "your" supposedly invented modern Bible,

Next you'll claim that witches and wizards were invented by Rowling...?

 

Regarding the quote in your post, its original meaning might have been very different.

Early Christianity was a mystery religion, like many other contemporary cults. Mystery religions had two kinds of followers - the large mass of believers and the smaller number of initiates in the secrets of the way to eternal life (by the way, the famous passage in the Gospels about Peter not recognizing the risen Jesus probably describes a failed initiation - the novice didn't understand the meaning of the scene played before his eyes). The religious rituals were also divided - public rituals and prayers for the simple believers, and the private, secret rituals for the initiates. Which explains why public prayers are not effective. God sees what's done in the secret rituals and will reward the initiates.

 

You're wasting your time. Wyrd has his own particular theory.

We all know the 'Biblical stories' of the OT were written nearly a 1000 years before the Vulgate. What did the Septuagint translate from Hebrew to Greek for the Jews who had left Israel 500 years before the time of Jesus. These scriptures were available for Jesus the preacher to know, use and comment on.

'Jerome’s translation was not immediately accepted, but from the mid-6th century a complete Bible with all the separate books bound in a single cover was commonly used. It usually contained Jerome’s Old Testament translation from the Hebrew, except for the Psalms; his Gallican Psalter; his translation of the books of Tobias (Tobit) and Judith (apocryphal in the Jewish and Protestant canons); and his revision of the Gospels. The remainder of the New Testament was taken from older Latin versions, which may have been slightly revised by Jerome. Certain other books found in the Septuagint—the Apocrypha for Protestants and Jews; the deuterocanonical books for Roman Catholics—were included from older versions.'. Encyclopaedia Brittanica.

Jerome didn't care for the Septuagint version of the OT so he translated from the Hebrew with the help of a Jewish scribe.

We have the Codex Siniaticus which is split between several Museums. Parts are missing - presumably due to the chaos in finding it and splitting it. The Codex Vaticanus has the 4 Gospels. These are not questioned as to their authenticity by reputable archaeologists and scribes conversant with the writing styles of the time. Neither is the fact that the OT was in 'print' in Jesus time as scrolls.

 

If they are atheists, they don't believe that Jesus was anything more than some guy, so why the hell would they want to do things SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE He said to do them?