Farage REVEALS brilliant plan to secure Brexit in 48 HOURS

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by cerberus, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    6,990
    Likes Received:
    6,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Basil?
    Its Mr. Faulty to you!!
     
  2. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Fascinating. The first person I ever noticed beginning their sentences with So was historian Timothy Snyder a couple of years ago. Since then I have noticed many people doing this, not infrequently academics. I just thought it was the new norm for beginning.
     
    The Scotsman likes this.
  3. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,687
    Likes Received:
    803
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So..... you say you're intolerant of others :p


    Touché :dual:

    The thing is, it relies on those parts being available when they are required which in turn benefits from geographic closeness (which is why so many UK JIT systems use components from the EU), logistical ease (if customs are a ball-ache each time then that's going to add to cost and uncertainty) and reliability (if the components are stuck on a lorry in Dover waiting for customs clearance, they're no good).

    At best this will make the UK-based manufacturer marginally less competitive than they were. At worst the parent company may decide that it's easier to relocate to the EU to re-establish their supply chain.

    Yes, and this works because of NAFTA. In the absence of a free trade arrangement the whole supply chain falls apart.

    It's all time and expenditure that they don't want to incur which is is why so many companies like Nissan say that they will review their manufacturing operations in the light of Brexit.

    There are an exhaustive set of trade agreements, with various tariffs and so forth, between the US and EU. What there isn't is a free trade agreement.

    You're absolutely right, all BMW X5s are manufactured in the US. There are a number of reasons for this:
    • The US is the X5's biggest market - accounting for around 30% of sales - it makes sense to build them there
    • By European standards, the US is a comparatively low cost manufacturer
    • The tariffs are 10% which can be absorbed into the costs of an expensive vehicle
    The UK isn't the home market for Nissan, Toyota or Honda. It's likely that the tariffs will be at best the same for the post-Brexit UK as they were in the UK for exporting to the rest of the world so it seems that the competitive advantage would be from becoming a low cost manufacturer.

    Toyota and Honda have said exactly the same and given that there is significant overcapacity in vehicle manufacturing globally, manufacturers are looking to see which plants they can close.
     
    The Scotsman likes this.
  4. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Messages:
    10,698
    Likes Received:
    2,469
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So the first person I ever noticed doing it was Valentino Rossi when he became motorcycling world champion, I thought it was another of those habits brought in by those europeans speaking english. Another thing to blame the EU for!;)
     
  5. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    6,990
    Likes Received:
    6,288
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    yeah...has been known....but its all done in the best possible taste...:)

    as a side thought...based on the relative decline in the value of sterling over the past 2 years against the euro I would imagine that any additional cost would be negated against the currency fluctuations...? I mean to say 2 years ago we had what was it.... an average of 1.41 GBP/EUR now its 1.19 or so? If you apply that then I would imagine we're ahead of the game in terms of labour cost at the very least.

    Is there a nominative value applied to a part which is manufactured and owned by a company which is then sent to its subsidiary company for integration into one of its sub-assemblies and then the completed assembly re-exported back to the parent? Does that attract any form of duty? From what I understand the UK is in the process of copying the EU tariffs into the UK's WTO set of regulations which means that they are the maximum that we could charge not the amount we will charge which is the same for the EU. They like us have a set of WTO regulations which impose a maximum charge but that does not mean they have to impose it. We could simply define the EU under a "most favoured nations" status and not apply anything likewise so could the EU. Again this goes back to what the UK government does to EU imported goods. why would the UK implement EU tariffs on EU imported goods if the government knew that the EU would reciprocate and cost the UK consumer more than it does now? The EU tariff for transport products is around 2% to 4% which is not in the grand scheme of thing a massive amount even if the EU/UK decided to implement such tariffs - and based on the trade we do with the EU why would they?

    In general though I'm interested in the car market for the reason that in 20 years or so what we are driving now will be museum pieces. I'm thinking that we all going to driving electrified kiddy carts which from what I've read are going to require a lot less movement of components. The debate about the car industry is interesting from the point that over the next 20 years or so there is going to be a radical change in the industry as a whole so what I would fascinated to know is how we in the UK are positioning ourselves for that? I'm not trying to deflect the argument but we could well be discussing deckchairs on the Titanic.

    I take your points though.But for me, as I think I said earlier, its really not possible to know what will happen until it happens; we can conjecture until the cows come home but until the outcome is settled nothing is certain. Yes there may be ramifications in the short term I'd be surprised if there wasn't! The opportunity though is what I'm fascinated in if, however, the whole country goes tits up then.... its' a by-product of democracy and we suck it up and move on. I'm an optimist though and am of the view that those that have been charged to implement a structured change in the way process is conducted and implemented are up to the task. We know that some companies are not doing anything about Brexit at the moment, at least that is what we sometimes hear reported, should that be true, to me that is a failure of management and not the business environment.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  6. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    25,530
    Likes Received:
    5,363
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, it was mentioned in the report, but only in the sense it was a normal temporary downturn in the fiscal cycle. The present one sounds more terminal though.

    Well in this weird climate of 'lies, damn lies, and stats, and vested interests', it's difficult, to say the least; so I guess I read the various versions of the issue, decide which source has most to gain from it, and base my conclusion on that. What else can I do? You never did come back and tell me whether or not you believe the Salisbury farce?
     
  7. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,687
    Likes Received:
    803
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Are you sure ?

    10 years ago, in the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis, Italy was on the verge of defaulting on its loans and its credit rating was in the basement. These days the risk of default seems to have gone.

    I haven't responded because a lengthy derail in which you insist that I give a "Yes or No" answer to evaluate a complex situation has no place in a thread about Nigel Farage's proposals for Brexit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  8. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    25,530
    Likes Received:
    5,363
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't understand that response. [​IMG]
     
  9. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    25,530
    Likes Received:
    5,363
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Like I've said - only a fool would believe governmental pronouncements these days, and they're especially suspect when they emanate from the EU or the ECB?

    Well in this weird climate of 'lies, damn lies, and stats, and vested interests', it's difficult, to say the least; so I guess I read the various versions of the issue, decide which source has most to gain from it, and base my conclusion on that. What else can I do? You never did come back and tell me whether or not you believe the Salisbury farce?

    I didn't find it complex at all - it was so obviously faked, and dramatised at prodigious expenditure of taxpayer pounds for a gullible audience: and it became even more obvious as the days and weeks went by and the flaws in the story started being revealed. For example, how can something with a viscosity which enables it to be 'smeared onto a door handle' be sprayed from a perfume vaporiser?

    Apols for screwing up the formatting. Blimey I really made a pigs' ear of that, didn't I? :oops:
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  10. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    25,530
    Likes Received:
    5,363
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Delete 'strongly opposed', insert 'blatant scaremongering'? And 'likely' is meaningless in the context, because it's subjective to the user's opinion or agenda.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
  11. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    25,530
    Likes Received:
    5,363
    Trophy Points:
    113
    FFS how many more times - they might be 'our largest. closest, and richest trading partners' now, but that doesn't mean they always will be does it?? Jesus! Wake up and smell it . . . Le Grande Projet is over, and you'd better start looking for new customers before the implosion happens, instead of sitting there day after day bellyaching your project fear drivel.
     
  12. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,687
    Likes Received:
    803
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well to be fair, Western Europe has been rich and has been our largest trading partner for most of the last two and a half millennia. Briefly, at the height of empire it wasn't the case, but unless the UK once again establishes a global empire (and I think we both agree that's unlikely in our lifetimes), then the proximity and wealth of Western Europe will still make it a hug market.

    Sure the BRICs will be more important globally, but they will tend to trade with countries which are physically closer.

    I find your insinuation that I haven't been working very hard to try and secure the future of my employees quite frankly insulting and typical of someone who has never had that kind of responsibility. The truth is that for a company which sells high value services, the global market is limited and outside of the EU there are very few markets to exploit. Most of the rest of the world simply cannot afford what we're selling and doing business in the Middle East and North America is a minefield.
     
  13. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    25,530
    Likes Received:
    5,363
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Like I said, we're talking about British sovereignty, culture, and future prosperity here; it isn't about the travails of your Company. A case of 'If you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen.'?
     
  14. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    25,530
    Likes Received:
    5,363
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't know what your company is about that it has so restricted a business outlet as the Eurozone area, TD (unless it's the manufacturer of EU :roflol:flags? ), but I believe you've allowed yourself to be brainwashed by the project fear brigade.
     
  15. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,687
    Likes Received:
    803
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's a simple matter of economics. Like many service companies, the rates that we charge mean that only "first world" countries can realistically afford our fees. It's easy doing business in the EU because we're all one big market. Selling outside the EU involves all kinds of barriers from simple geography (doing business in Australia and New Zealand is very difficult due to distance and time difference), language (many countries want to do business with native speakers), legal (setting up to do business in the US is an expensive minefield) and so on.

    You find these kinds of things out through 20+ years of experience.
     
  16. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,687
    Likes Received:
    803
    Trophy Points:
    113
    ...and the biggest threat to the last of those is Brexit, and in particular, a disorderly Brexit. Where will the benefits come from when out future trade deals will be simply the EU ones rolled over ? (if the other parties are willing to do so, but so far they seem understandably reluctant - because the know they can extract more favourable terms from a UK in need of trade deals)

    Spoken like someone who has never, ever had that level of responsibility.
     
  17. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    25,530
    Likes Received:
    5,363
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well obviously, as in non-commercial life, there will be winners and losers. I guess the answer is to adapt, diversify, or take a dive. I just believe that the billions which will be saved by making no further contributions to Brussels should be used to support businesses like yours; but I must admit that you sound very defeatist.
     
  18. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,687
    Likes Received:
    803
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Those alleged billions have already been virtually spent many times over on a variety of things including:
    • Subsidising farmers
    • Subsidising manufacturers for their Brexit-related losses
    • Increased expenditure on customs and excise
    • Increased expenditure on the border force and immigration
    • Having to set up departments to deal with all the functions currently handled on our behalf by the EU (like trade and all kinds of regulations)
    ...and that's before we even get to the promises like increased funding for the NHS (it seems that funding will likely decrease instead).
     
  19. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    25,530
    Likes Received:
    5,363
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Blimey, you really are a nay-saying prophet of doom! We live in a bureaucracy so all of the above is just par for the course.
     
  20. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,687
    Likes Received:
    803
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Regarding the highlighted, not really, just pointing out that the EU "subs" have been repeatedly committed by pro-Leave various people as a way of mitigating the effects of leaving the EU. Leave campaigners told us that we would be immediately better off. Now even ardent supporters like Rees-Mogg are saying it could be fifty years before we see any benefit.

    IMO the economic argument for leaving the EU is a busted flush. There was no rationale behind it, and the confident predictions that countries would be queuing up to set up free trade agreements on better terms than we currently have with the EU have been shown to be wishful thinking - they are currently reluctant to even set up relationships based on the same terms.
     
  21. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    25,530
    Likes Received:
    5,363
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I haven't heard him say that; to save me searching could you provide a link please?
     
  22. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    66,645
    Likes Received:
    46,473
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If the US could keep you supplied while being hunted by submarines in WW2, we could probably do it now.
     
  23. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,687
    Likes Received:
    803
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No doubt, but on what economic terms ?

    Right now, the UK is ripe for plucking because we're in need of trade agreements. Between the US and EU, there would be a negotiation between peers. Between the US and UK, the US would certainly have the upper hand and could insist that the UK allows US-spec goods in (commonly quoted examples include GMO crops, hormone fed beef and chlorinated chicken), US access to the lucrative NHS and so on.
     
  24. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,687
    Likes Received:
    803
    Trophy Points:
    113
    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...tb2Zm&guce_referrer_cs=oqJE5HlJAo6wxSEsZFg2zQ
     
  25. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2015
    Messages:
    66,645
    Likes Received:
    46,473
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Terms that would be better than bowing to an unelected bureaucracy in Brussels, headed by a drunken groper.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...trade-deal-offer-a-gift-for-brexit-supporters

    I doubt the US cares about how bent a banana is.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
    cerberus likes this.

Share This Page