Theresa May poised for SHOWDOWN as she reveals Plan B to save Brexit.

You're fixated on the single example. There are plenty of large UK-owned, UK-based, and UK-operated trawlers out there turning a good profit.

The issue of big boats vs. little boats and the unfairness towards the little boats is a different issue and one which will apparently not be solved by Brexit in any hue. Even if, post Brexit, the UK government decides that the sales of quotas needs to be reversed and, Corbyn-like, they take them back into public ownership, it'll be the large companies which will own the quotas and the smaller operators will still be ****-out-of-luck. Indeed, if we end up with even looser regulations post-Brexit (as many on the right are pushing for) then there'll be even fewer protections for the small operators.

 

Thanks, with the amount, I was able to find this.

http://www.marinet.org.uk/marinet-writes-to-defra-about-mmo-and-dutch-trawlers-illegal-fishing.html

Again, don't know why it's the EU's fault that DEFRA are toothless

 

Indeed that's my point we get let down by the Government when it comes to enforcement of fisheries!

 

If the fault lies with our own government and agencies, I cannot see how Brexit will fix anything...

 

I've used it as an example - one vessel.. not one company... ONE vessel has 23% of the total UK quota! But yes looking at UK you have 3 actual UK companies that control around 30% of the quota but a further 50% is ultimately held by these Dutch, Spanish and Icelandic interests.

Anyway the whole thing is a bloody mess even without the whole brexit fiasco. You had one Irish company...what was it the Voyager case?...that had something like 50% of the Irish quota but didn't even own a vessel!! They rented this quota out and made £2.5M without even actually doing any fishing!!

 

it probably won't...not if DEFRA doesn't become a bit more savvy... I'm thinking through and highlighting the issues that have to be looked into

 

Not quite, its 23% of the quota of one type of fish in one area.

The quotas were sold, quite legally, by the UK companies and fishermen that previously owned them. Had the EU prevented those companies from doing that, then we'd have complained about that instead.

It does appear to be the case but then I don't understand why this is such a cause célèbre for Brexiteers when Brexit will do nothing to fix the problem.

 

Same here. Its another shyte fest in a long line of shyte fests that need to be sorted.
I guess the issue could be that although there are obvious failings in the present UK system which need to quantified, addressed and stress tested the EU system as a whole is I think dysfunctional. Its a bit like the US lobbying system; the original construct was perhaps within the bounds of reason - they had a concept that they thought was workable and fair, however, that assumes a status quo but then you bring into the mix the various dynamic competing interests that have evolved because of the the national demands and needs within Common Fisheries Policy or Common Agricultural Policy etc. The problems occur when you have competing political factions lobbying for their own specific interests or markets or labour force and then add to that a byzantine web of EC directives and of course the money. It all comes down to following the money.

Brexit for me is not about trade deals or customs unions or more dosh for the NHS!! Its about being the arbiters of our own fortune (misfortune) and future with the alternative to that being simple; abrogate everyone's national sovereignty in its entirety to become a EU (one country) which who knows ultimate may not be a bad thing! But its this madness that's the in-between one or the other that is my issue - either do one thing or don't - either follow the tenets of Westfalia and respect national sovereignty or go the full hog and integrate the whole bloody caboodle! At the moment all that's happening is everyone's pissing around the edges squabbling over their debt and who's going to pay for it like the Greeks or fighting in the streets against the tide of globalism and their loss of world status like the French or quietly gaining power and using it for their own interest like the Germans (and good luck to them they are a pragmatic bunch and have worked hard to earn their status) and I just think we'd be better off for the moment outside of it. Let the dust settle and have a long hard look at how the geo-political games that Russia and China and the US are playing and how they will pan out. Unlike the tenets of Kant which assumes power through commonality and the mutuality of confederated states ultimately power is still power and the EU is not up to it at the moment. The world is becoming a very dangerous place and whilst having a trade deal with the EU may be great it does not assume the invulnerability of the EU to alternative structures of power. Anyway enough of that.....

 

To judge from the often immediacy of your replies, I get the distinct impression that they were spontaneous, rather than searched for, read, analysed, then composed for posting, after a Google search? So excuse my cynicism but this is 'the internet'?

 

Some of the talking points have been revisited many times on this board so in those cases it's just a matter of remembering the key points. More detailed responses take more time and may or may not come depending on whether I can be bothered.

In the case of fishing rights, the main arguments regarding whether Brexit will make a difference to fishermen with smaller boats have been in the media for the last three years or more, so there's no research to do. The Scotsman then brought up a specific instance of a particular trawler which had a lot of quota and had been insufficiently fined - that took a few minutes to track down (thanks to the link The Scotsman helpfully provided) and I was able to give a cursory review of a couple of articles.

 

Okay, but it wasn't a criticism, I was just airing an errant thought.

 

Leave the EU and all the old people will die.

And I thought I'd heard it all.

 

Except that isn't what I said, so you haven't heard it all.

Instead what I said was a significant influx of pensioners would place additional strain on the NHS at a time when it's already overstretched and underfunded and at a time (following a no-deal Brexit) when public finances are going to be very stretched. Additionally, if there's also an exodus of working age people back to the EU, then the problem becomes even more acute as there will be fewer workers to make up any funding shortfall.

The the case of the selectively edited piece, my concern is that if public finances are in a terrible state, the "triple lock" will be a casualty and pensioners could find their incomes reducing in real terms.

 

I did, and parodied it. You were painting the usual remoaner doomsday scenario, so I ratcheted it up a gear to highlight the absurdity. Call it poetic license.

 

They'll probably bring out and dust off the 'plague of locusts' frightener soon. The only thing they haven't dreamed up yet is another biblical flood. Before they do, I'd better find out what a cubit is, in case I have to build my own ark? lol

 

Yes because if democracy doesn't get the desired result that leftists want, just ignore democracy and make people keep voting until you get the answer you want.

 

This insanely smart, articulate man of the people has been busting Brexit bullshit of the type you mention recently. Expect more where this came from.




(Even if he does look like a pedophile.)

 

Excellent post - shame about the extraordinary suffix.

 

Doomsday scenario ?

Feel free to point out any inaccuracies in an argument that says that if there is a no-deal Brexit and if as a consequence hundreds of thousands of pensioners move back to the UK, it will place the NHS, which is already overstretched and underfunded under even more pressure at a time when the public finances are already under strain.

The alternative, that everything will be OK because of unicorns and the fact that because we're English (the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish seem not to share this delusion) that the rest of the world will put their interests to one side and give us trade deals that are in our favour.

 

What the "Remoaners" have done is to point out realistic real world consequences of Brexit, and in particular a no-deal Brexit. The Leave campaign on the other hands seems to rely on wishful thinking and the belief that the rest of the world owes us a living.

 

That's really scraping the bottom of the negativity barrel. Whichever way we exit, the remainers don't know what the consequences will be any more than the leavers do, so stop with the er, remoaning.

 

By the way, have you watched the vid in post 92 above? Any comment on it?

 

Why ?

The Leave supporters insist that countries will set up trade agreements with the UK on better terms than the current agreements between the EU and those countries. When questioned about why those countries should favour the UK more than the much larger EU market, no coherent argument is produced but instead they cling to soundbytes like:

• The Commonwealth will ensure that the mother country will come to no harm
• President Trump, despite being a master deal-maker and holding all the cards, likes the cut of our jib and has promised us a great trade deal

wishful thinking in the extreme.

 

No, I don't have time to watch random videos of an indeterminate length - were there any key points you'd like me to address ?

edited to add.....

Who made the video ? What are his qualifications ?

 

It doesn't matter who he is nor how qualified, what he says is the important thing, don't you agree? And you have plenty of time to watch it - it only lasts 10 effing minutes from beginning to end. Sorry The Don, but the more you post, the more convinced I'm becoming there's more to you than meets the eye.