Must God Prove He Exists?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by XXJefferson#51, Jan 27, 2019.

  1. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    27,731
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    48
    "
    in·fin·i·tive
    (ĭn-fĭn′ĭ-tĭv)n. Abbr. inf. or infin. A verb form that functions as a substantive while retaining certain verbal characteristics, such as modification by adverbs, and that in English may be preceded by to, as in To go willingly is to show strength or We want him to work harder, or may also occur without to, as in She had them read the letter or We may finish today."

    Therefore the "to" is not the "infinitive"
     
  2. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    27,731
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    48
    repeat posting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
  3. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    you guys are feeding the trolling. Inc will take you down an infinite rabbit hole which completely derails the actual topic and you just go back and forth arguing definitions.
     
    yardmeat and Jonsa like this.
  4. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    56,164
    Likes Received:
    30,632
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In English it may be preceded by to. My example was preceded by to, which infinitives may do. Once again, not sure where I'm losing you. Maybe look up "split infinitive" as well for context that may help.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
  5. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    39,871
    Likes Received:
    11,452
    Trophy Points:
    113
    its his MO.
     
    yardmeat and rahl like this.
  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,488
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Grammar!!

    Finally something useful on this thread!
     
    Jonsa likes this.
  7. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    8,898
    Likes Received:
    2,751
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Truth is an implication. It is necessarily what it is.
    Proof is an inference. It is the product of testing. To the extent that a thing is tested, it is proved.
     
  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    59,488
    Likes Received:
    16,351
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The catch is that there is no possibility of humans testing god.
     
  9. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    39,871
    Likes Received:
    11,452
    Trophy Points:
    113
    or disproved.
     
  10. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    5,301
    Likes Received:
    1,983
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I seldom chime in on these things, but if he wishes me to believe he exists, then there must be proof. I have little time or tolerance for faith.
     
  11. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    4,517
    Likes Received:
    3,138
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I would have thought that nothing in this universe needs to prove it 'exists' including God. The answer to the question of whether or not something exits or not lies within the remit of the observer not the observed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  12. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    8,898
    Likes Received:
    2,751
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "Prove He exists" to whom? To His creatures?
    Does an author have to prove that He exists to His novel characters?
     
  13. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    invalid comparison. Charectors in a novel are not part of reality. The author is.

    Your imaginary god would be part of reality, as well as it's creation. So it would need to prove it exists to it's creation.
     
  14. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    39,871
    Likes Received:
    11,452
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If nothing needs to be proven to exist, then what is the point of scientific inquiry in the first place? Discovery of that which we do not readily perceive or naturally observe is at the heart of human progress. Microbes and galaxies readily come to mind as examples. Both "proofs of existence" sparked massive scientific and technological development.
     
  15. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    4,517
    Likes Received:
    3,138
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    All true but those discoveries you refer to (and all others) are the fruits of scientific investigation. Mankind discovered them by searching. The discovery of new ideas /concepts/scientific truths etc is not a passive endeavor, we seek and thereby learn and that search is a choice. Some (few) basic truths thrust themselves upon us as children or adults e.g. fire burns, it hurts when we lose someone etc but the vast majority have to be actively searched for.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  16. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    39,871
    Likes Received:
    11,452
    Trophy Points:
    113
    One would like to think that the pursuit of the "truth" is a universal human endeavor, but regrettably that is not the case. There are too many intangible "truths" that are simply assumed by the spiritually incurious.
     
  17. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    5,301
    Likes Received:
    1,983
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To me.
     
  18. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    8,898
    Likes Received:
    2,751
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He may have made you to believe that He does, but He did not make me believe that He does.
    I don't think that He does.

    No where in the bible does the bible hold out the bible as the reason that men could know that there is a God. The bible holds out the nature of the balance of creation as the reason why we can know that this is a creation, and we have a creator.
     
  19. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    27,769
    Likes Received:
    4,921
    Trophy Points:
    113
    doesn't it strike you as rather suspicious that god was so willing to perform miracles to prove his existance in the past and now in the modern world we are suddenly expected to take it all on faith?
     
  20. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    27,769
    Likes Received:
    4,921
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Of course there is! I challenge it to strike me dead. Will post if I am here tomorrow, and assume that will prove the non existance of god to everyones satisfaction.
     
  21. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    5,301
    Likes Received:
    1,983
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No one makes me believe anything, certainly no deity. I see religion as just another form of government and a deity just another symbol, like a flag. So, a deity does no more to make me believe in something any more than a flag.

    The Bible is a nice collection of myths, selectively chosen as a collection by a few government leaders.
     
  22. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

    Joined:
    May 29, 2017
    Messages:
    16,405
    Likes Received:
    14,885
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Jesus made that quite clear after His resurrection in His comments to doubting Thomas. Blessed are those who having not seen, believe.
     
  23. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2011
    Messages:
    10,833
    Likes Received:
    4,092
    Trophy Points:
    113
    God is our father right? I don't know about any of you but I'd actually show up and physically be around my children. If God really existed, we wouldn't have to wonder whether he existed or not because he'd be around in ways that were indisputable. He might show up and make some remarks when 9/11 happened or come down and heal a few people. Jesus did supposedly perform some miracles, but that was only a 3 year period 2,000 years ago and the only evidence we have of this are unverified claims by some religious people back then. Why doesn't he and his prophets perform miracles on a regular basis just like parents help their children on a regular basis?

    There are many other religions that have their own supernatural and miracle claims too like Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, etc. We also have UFO, Bigfoot sightings as well as physic and ghost claims. Just because someone claimed that miracles happened in a time of superstition doesn't mean we should just believe it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
  24. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    27,769
    Likes Received:
    4,921
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That is what rational people call a copout. And pretty funny since while he was alive he had no issue with performing cheap stunts to fool the masses.
     
    The Wyrd of Gawd likes this.
  25. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    29,682
    Likes Received:
    3,995
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Even the biblical fairy tale blasts the God character for not proving that he exists.
     

Share This Page