Democrat invites illegal immigrant fired from Trump golf club to State of the Union address

Juanita Broaddrick?

 

I understand what you are saying, and I have plenty of thoughts on victimless crimes (for another thread) but coming into, and or staying in a country illegally, is a crime regardless if it involves others involuntarily. The tangible effects of not only identity theft, which can cause irreparable harm to the one being impersonated, but the endangerment to the employer, the extra work having to verify the employee through governmental systems and address issued thereof, Even if an identity is created out of thin air (or death records) where there is no direct harm, an individual does it with full knowledge of what they are doing. I disagree about illegal immigrants taking jobs from Americans. Most US citizens wouldn't take some of the jobs the illegals do, they've proven that when they have had jobs offered to them and they decline.

There is nothing that is preventing the individual from doing things in a legal, proper manner. Claiming asylum after you've been caught coming into this country illegally is like filling out a withdraw slip at the bank after you've robbed it.

I don't disagree for the most part on the examples you posted, we've all bent nonvital rules along the way. What I consider victimless crimes.

 

I've posted this before.

If they have stolen someone's Social Security number, 'they' are not paying taxes..... the person whose Social Security number they have used will be charged with the income, and the corresponding Federal Income Tax. It is then up to the victim to prove their identity was stolen, and the income not received. Once (and it can take years) to sort out the identity theft, the taxes that were paid are no longer credited to that Social Security number, and absorbed into the General Fund. The victim receives no benefit for the damage and time the identity theft has caused them.

That is NOT contributing to the community, that is criminal activity and the victimization of an innocent person.

 

All false
They pay more in taxes, have jobs that U.S. citizens want. They are not a "drain on resources" and "stability of a society". Really? "stability of a society".
The sky is falling nonsense.

 

........and yet you discount the fact that in recent years the numbers are decreasing not increasing.

 

This is why we need welfare reform in addition to immigration reform. As long as there are able-bodied Americans receiving welfare, it is insane to entertain the notion that some jobs are "beneath" Americans. No job should be beneath a person who is able-bodied and receiving welfare.

 

You have taken the least likely way for an illegal to get a SS number to make a point that is still wrong. If they are working and are paid, payroll taxes are taken out, so they do pay some taxes. As far as paying income tax, most don't make enough to pay.

 

Sez who?

There are no reliable numbers

Besides that skuld be our decision rather than letting undesirable foreign characters decide

 

Least likely ?.... so what is the 'most likely' way for an illegal immigrant to obtain a Social Security number?

If they have Social Security and Medicare deducted from their check, it is credited to the Social Security number declared, and when found to be fraudulent, are removed from the account for the Social Security number and contributed to the Treasury General Fund. And other mis-statements you'd care to make?

The standard for illegal immgrants is to not have Federal Withholding taken out (declaring exempt or excessive dependents), and saying that they 'don't earn enough to have to 'pay' income tax' is false on two fronts. First, they are paid as any other worker is, Any earned wage is eligible for income taxes. Second, when they have used a stolen identity, the person they have victimized is likely working and earning an income, therefor the combination of the two incomes would be taxable.

 

The most common ways are a child's number or multiple people using the same friends number. Another is just making it up.
Your withholding argument is too convoluted to dissect.

 

Yes. I don't advocate breaking the law, but the truly victimless infraction that absolutely puts nobody else at any kind of risk of person or property or requires no participation by anybody isn't something I lose any sleep over.

Using somebody else's social security number is not victimless, however.

For reasons unimportant to explain here, I have had a widely varied and eclectic working career and awhile back I was a licensed all lines insurance adjuster who eventually was working primarily work comp claims. Illegals at least in New Mexico are entitled to full workers compensation benefits if they are injured on the job and I worked quite a few of those claims. It was almost impossible to nail down a consistent name or permanent physical address for these people, and tracing their medical records showed that they were using as many as four or five different social security numbers when they checked into different emergency room or urgent care facilities. Sometimes those who take day jobs don't provide a social security number at all, but most are using at least one fraudulent social security number.

Hey, if they are paying into my social security account, that's a good thing for me, (the rhetorical) you say? Well when you apply for social security, overlapping reported income in widely separated locations can raise red flags especiallty on your taxes. A fraudulent social security number used to open a bank account, apply for a credit card, or buy a house or whatever could so negatively affect your credit record and credit rating that it could take you years to undo the damage. And if that social security number showed up in the commission of a crime I don't have to describe the problems that could create for you. People appropriating somebody else's social security number is not a victimless crime nor is fraudulently availing oneself of local, state, or federal social services and benefits.

 

The evidence supports my opinion much more than yours. Do have a great day though.

 

You're preaching to the choir.

'But they just want a better life'..... at the cost of someone else's life. Cleaning up the aftermath of identity theft is horrendous, time consuming and could be very expensive. And somehow, people seem to think no crime has been committed.

 

You still don't realize, regardless of the age of the person they are stealing a Social Security number from, the complications and impact on that person (or in your scenario, the parents of) ??

While I highly doubt that someone who is inclined to steal someone's identity is going to worry about the age of the victim, it would show up if the employer uses the appropriate validation systems.

There is no such thing as 'just making it (a social security number) up". See my comment directly up ^^^^. It either has, does, or will belong to a US citizen, and their illegal use of it has an impact.

Bottom line, they are illegal, they are committing at least one crime but more likely multiple crimes, and they don't care who they hurt in the process.

And you are advocating for them, so what does that make you?

 

Are they guilty of any crimes? Which ones?

 

It can cause tons of problems, especially when it comes to credit ratings and Government benefits.

http://web.archive.org/web/20071216...view_sections.asp?idcategory=9&idarticle=7876

Read the article.

I read of one lady who had 81 different people using her social security number. Another example was a woman who was hurt on the job and was turned down for Workers Comp benefits because the person using her SSN was already on workers comp. These folks are identity thieves.

 

Trump should have ICE greet her...

 

My fault for not being clear, the child's number in most cases is a Dreamer. Making a number up is a real thing after a little research.
Yes, they are illegal, I never said otherwise but your painting them as desperate criminals denying citizens jobs is not a true picture of the situation. My grandparents came from Europe and like millions of others went through Ellis Island........because they had to They had to cross an ocean and were taken there when they crossed but if they were in Mexico, given the circumstances, I don't think they would have hesitated to cross a river or desert to get here.
What does that make me.......compassionate. What does your outlook make you? Law abiding? I think not.

 

I don't say they take US citizens jobs, never have. Perhaps read back and refresh your memory, 'k?

I've never used the word desperate, but they will go to extreme lengths without regard to the damage they are doing to an innocent US citizen, or the danger they put themselves, their children and their spouses in. If you feel that puts them in the 'desperate' column, then I suppose it does in your view.

Since I have a number of family members who have immigrated to the US from various countries, who went through the process legally and without having to claim asylum, I guess I have a biased view. I have a view that sees it can be done legally, without harming other people, without having to lie about who they are, and are proud to take the oath of Citizenship.

 

And for every one of those the government catches, you can bet there are many more that they didn't catch.

 

Post 227 you said " take work from legal citizens even when they do not break the law in any other way." So unless that has a meaning I don't understand, yeah, you did.

They are desperate and put themselves into a "Catch-22" situation once they cross the border. You are without a doubt overstating the "damage they are doing to an innocent US citizen". Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's very rare. Do they put themselves, their spouses and children in danger? Yes, but they are willing to to have a better life. That should tell you something, but it won't.....because, you know, "criminals".

Did they come this or last century? Makes a difference. Are your family white? That's not a racist question, it's just a fact that it's easier. Did they come across an ocean? I've stated that already being an easier way to get in. A lot of factors go into the hows and whys with Hispanic illegals.

 

All of my Grand Parents are legal immigrants to the United States. My question is what gives them the right , desperate or not, to cut in line ahead of all those doing it the right way and why shouldn't we toss 'em out on their ears?

 

I would wet my pants if ICE showed up and hauled her out of there.

 

Just about to say, I hope ICE shows up!

 

Do you really want that given how most of the media would make it look? It would dominate all the news and social media for at least days, there would be a gazillion threads started on it on these message boards, and all the President's report of the good things happening in America and his outlook for the future would be buried under a mountain of emotionally charged accusations, blame, purported heartlessness, extrapolations into racism, etc. etc. etc.

I want the President to focus exclusively on the state of the union and his plans for moving forward and give them no ammunition of any kind to use other than that. They still probably won't report it, but at least they'll have to strain at gnats to avoid doing so.