Democrats - 'Green New Deal' to end fossil fuel era

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by HB Surfer, Feb 7, 2019.

  1. HB Surfer

    HB Surfer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ^^^ What a disaster of a post. Someone that is so ignorant on industrial and economic revolutions that they compare private economic improvements to big government control. Pathetic.
     
  2. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They are viable in the luxury segment and its only a matter of time before they are viable in the mass market.

    Not because of Tesla, but because Audi and BMW are making big strides.
     
  3. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Of course you haven't actually read the Green New Deal but of course it is much easier to just parrot the Republican talking points than to take the five minutes to actually read it and think for yourself.
     
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  4. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    And besides you can sink them with a rubber raft. Useless dinosaurs that only prove the military's ability to fight the last war.
     
  5. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Carl Vincent carrier strike group was once said (recently) to be the 4th or 5th most formidable military unit in the world. It has firepower that can destroy some small countries.
     
  6. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    They eat all the crap that the Left indoctrinates them with up like ice cream. Take "Hockey Stick" Michael E. Mann for example. His claims have gained the support of globalist elites, governments eager for the regulation and taxation power, corporations eager for loan guarantees, mandates and subsidies, and academia hooked on billions of dollars of federal research grants, but they just can't quite get us to panic.

    Mann modestly claims the mere questioning of his theories is “the most villainous act in the history of human civilization.” Worse than the Holocaust, apparently.

    https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/02/peak_warmist_hysteria.html
     
  7. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    They are most viable in the luxury segment because rich libs pay enough taxes to benefit from the tax subsidy on electric cars

    So the richest Americans are getting a subsidy from the government
     
  8. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't disagree. Elon Musk is worth $4.9bn and has got $4bn in subsidies.

    The tax concession is $2,500 to $7,500, and Tesla are soon to be ineligible. In the luxury car segment a $2,500 to $7,500 price increase is not crippling. The technology is fundamentally solid and will only get better and cheaper as more mainstream manufacturers jump on board. It is simply a superior technology in most every way except range and recharging.

    That doesn't mean they'll displace every internal combustion engine, I for one would never give up my 4.5L V8 turbo diesel ute. It's simply better for remote locations and tough terrain.

    Would I take a Model S if Tesla offered me one? Absolutely. Would I take one over a BMW M2 Competiton or Mercedes Benz C63? Yeah. Over an Aston Martin DB11 or Ferrari F12? Probably not. There's something about internal combustion. The passion, the raw mechanical prowess.

    What I think will happen (absent government regulation) is that electric cars will decimate the low-mid range of the market, while internal combustion and electric will share the high end market. Similar to when Quartz watches made automatics functionally obsolete in the 60s. There's still a place on the market for automatic movements just as there will be for fine IC driven cars.
     
  9. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Yes. And it would certainly be wonderful if we were going to fight WW2 all over again. Now just a collection of floating obsolesce and a tribute to how graft and corruption dominates military spending.
     
  10. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Electric cars have some advantages over IC

    Fewer drivetrain parts, lower maintance costs

    And problems such as range

    If it were not for the government subsidies I would have nothing against them at all

    Let the consumer decide in a free market - not some pinhead tree hugger in washington giving away my tax dollars
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  11. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree completely, brother.

    Another big advantage is max torque throughout acceleration. Really that's the biggest advantage for me, as max torque low in the RPM range is #1 priority for off road engines. This they would excel at.

    Who knows, 20 years in the future utes might be better off with a hybrid engine and all solar panelling - bonnet, roof, doors, the lot. I know with the sort of driving I do that would be very useful indeed - I live in the hot Australian sun and tend to stay in camp for 2-3 days at a time. Quad bike on the back tray so I don't use the car much around camp. Charging it over a few days would be a legitimately great thing, I have 320L of diesel on board but that only gets me about 2800km lol.

    But I want to ensure we always have the choice as IC engines are beautiful (like mechanical watch movements) and should be available going forward. I can already see the bureaucratic vultures circling... so I'm not holding my breath.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  12. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Farm tractors is an area where electric power makes sense

    High torque at low speed is what farmers are looking for
     
  13. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And us overland 4WD adventure types :salute:

    I must say the 700hp won't go unappreciated:

    http://www.dieselnews.com.au/all-electric-full-size-ute-launch/

    This is all far, far off where I'd be willing to buy one, but it's a promising entry into the market.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  14. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Yes

    The ease of making 4-wheel drive is really appealing to engineers
     
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  15. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    I think diesel-electric is the obvious choice
     
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  16. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I currently use front, rear, and center differential locks to enhance traction, having different engines to different wheels opens up a whole nother world of opportunities in this regard.

    The tech is solid, I just hate the government picking winners and losers.
     
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  17. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Let's not forget the biggest advantage of the electric car: 95% efficiency of the electric engine vs. 30% efficiency of the ICE. This efficiency advantage is just too much to not make use of. If it wasn't for the entrenched infrastructure advantage of the ICE, it would be toast already.
     
  18. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    charging stations is a minor issue

    Range is more important

    You cant zip into a truck stop and recharge an electric car in 5 minutes and be on your way again
     
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  19. TrackerSam

    TrackerSam Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This will drive the price of fuel even lower.
     
  20. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Which in turn makes IC autos more attractive
     
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  21. TrackerSam

    TrackerSam Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which they built with oil money.
     
  22. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    LOL.. Why not.. Its their oil and Saudi ARAMCO is the largest, most well integrated oil company in the world.
     
  23. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is not relevant for my purposes. It would be for a daily drive.
     
  24. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I sure hope so!

    I'm sure punitive excise taxes will pick up the slack.
     
  25. TrackerSam

    TrackerSam Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL. I'm not complaining. But high speed rail requires a straight track and there are only 2 self sufficient rail systems in the world.
     

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