Trump tells European countries to take back IS fighters

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Peter Dow, Feb 17, 2019.

  1. Peter Dow

    Peter Dow Active Member

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    BBC: Trump tells European countries to take back IS fighters

    "President Donald Trump has told the UK and other European allies to take back and put on trial more than 800 Islamic State (IS) fighters captured in the final battle against the group."
    [​IMG]
    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump


    The United States is asking Britain, France, Germany and other European allies to take back over 800 ISIS fighters that we captured in Syria and put them on trial. The Caliphate is ready to fall. The alternative is not a good one in that we will be forced to release them........

    ....The U.S. does not want to watch as these ISIS fighters permeate Europe, which is where they are expected to go. We do so much, and spend so much - Time for others to step up and do the job that they are so capable of doing. We are pulling back after 100% Caliphate victory!​

    Wait along Mr President. Are you remembering that we caught 2 of the suspected executioners of American journalist James Foley and other innocents?

    [​IMG]
    Suspected executioners / video-makers, Alexanda Kotey and El Shafee Elsheikh

    Both men were declared “Specially Designated Global Terrorists” by the US State Department ahead of their capture, with official documents naming them as members of the “The Beatles” and saying the cell had beheaded more than 27 hostages and tortured many more.

    [​IMG]
    American journalist James Foley was among the hostages killed in Isis propaganda videos (AP)

    Diane Foley, the mother of murdered American journalist James Foley, called for Kotey and Elsheikh to undergo a criminal trial either in the US or in an international court.

    BBC - Interview with Islamic State 'Beatles' duo
    "The two men accused of being part of the notorious Islamic State cell dubbed 'the Beatles', have called into question the government’s attempt to have them tried in the United States.

    Speaking to the BBC for the first time since the legal moves were made public, Alexanda Kotey and El Shafee Elsheikh denied they had been stripped of their British citizenship. The pair deny being part of the IS gang and are being held at an undisclosed location in northern Syria.

    They spoke to our Middle East Correspondent, Quentin Sommerville."

    These executioners and execution-video makers should face trial and the death penalty :crossbones: if found guilty and that can only happen if they are extradited as suspected war criminals to face trial IN THE UNITED STATES! :flagus:

    This is no time to drop the ball Mr President.

    The UK doesn't have the death penalty so if these British-born terrorists get extradited to the UK they will escape justice with a life of free meals and X-box. That wouldn't be justice for the immense evil that they've so brazenly done (allegedly).
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  2. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For heaven's sake, do you have any idea what would happen if they were put on trial in the US? The Saudis would pay for a top lawyer, and the terrorists would get all the support they need from George Soros, the one world order freaks and who knows who else. Why not give them over to the Syrian army or the SDF. They'll know what to do with them.
     
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  3. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Says a president of a country who refuses to take it's gitmo prisoners to his own country, and let them rot without a trial on Cuba.​
     
  4. Peter Dow

    Peter Dow Active Member

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    A guilty verdict and the death penalty?
    The Saudis presumably paid the Pakistani military to gave Bin Laden all the support he thought he needed too - a safe house near the Pakistani military academy, for example.

    The Saudis' money is not invincible.

    A trial in the USA will be a spectacle sure but they would all have to wait outside because there will only be room for the press in the court room itself.
    I think they are still in SDF hands. Since the crimes were committed in lands liberated by the SDF I guess that makes the SDF the sovereign power and so it must be SDF courts - or SDF military tribunals - who must decide what happens to the ISIS prisoners next anyway.

    I suppose if the SDF decide to put them on trial and execute them that would be fine.

    Otherwise, if the US wants to do this the quick way, they could seek custody of the ISIS prisoners and take them somewhere for a military tribunal - that's how the Nazi war criminals were brought to justice.

    If you remember Bin Laden's body was flown by helicopter to a US warship and his remains were buried at sea.

    So how's about if the SDF don't want to do the honours, the US could seek custody and fly ISIS prisoners to a US warship in the Mediterranean or the Gulf or somewhere thereabouts - doesn't really matter - and have them tried and sentenced (to death hopefully) there?

    The question for the US is would the US want to process the whole 800 or so that way or just those declared as “Specially Designated Global Terrorists” by the US State Department?

    Maybe the US doesn't want the small fry? In which case, let the SDF dispose of the small fry with as much dignity as the situation warrants.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
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  5. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    They should be tried in a country where the committed their crimes. Syria and Iraq in most instances.
    The criminal justice systems in the US and the UK broken and ineffective.
     
  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think they should be let off easy if they publicly renounce Islam and convert to another more peaceful religion, like Christianity or Buddhism.
     
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  7. Peter Dow

    Peter Dow Active Member

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    If I were the gitmo prisoners I wouldn't be pressing for an early trial - they might not like the verdict, or more to the point the sentence. Sometimes rotting in jail is as good as it gets.
     
  8. Peter Dow

    Peter Dow Active Member

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    If that's what the local authorities decree, sure. Maybe they'll be happy to extradite those whom the US wants to make an example of?
    Well the US has quite limited social security so desperate people do desperate things to keep a roof over their head, leading to a high crime rate and large prison population. Probably if they had housing benefit like we have in the UK then there wouldn't have been so much crime and the prison population would be smaller and it would cost less for the tax-payer? That's how a socialist would look at it anyway.

    The UK system is broken in that it takes political prisoners.
     
  9. Peter Dow

    Peter Dow Active Member

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    Really? You think that they wouldn't lie, so-called "renounce", get out, and pick up exactly where they left off before they were captured.

    Also that's a bit of an insult to all those peaceful followers of Islam who would never renounce their religion but equally would never commit the crimes that ISIS did.

    Considering the nature of the ISIS regime, I really don't think "letting them off easy" would be at all acceptable.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2019
  10. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh please, a lot of them condone it, if they wouldn't do it themselves.
     
  11. aenigma

    aenigma Well-Known Member

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    syrian army sounds like a good solution
    but sending them to europe isnt, in belgium they get what 5-10years max, back out in 2-3 (only have to serve 1/3 minimal here)
     
  12. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    Why can't we just eliminate those bastards ?
     
  13. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    In general, the demand that states take their citizens back, who were captured as IS terrorists and fighters, quite justified and understandable.
    In my country, there is a strange unity among many politicians from the very right to the very left: These IS fighters who have a German citizenship, this citizenship should be withdrawn immediately!
    Personally, I see it too ... this scum no longer has a right to a German nationality!

    However, one must ... AS ALWAYS at Donald Trump ... Realtivize the statement and cut on actual facts!

    Point #01
    Certainly ironic, but ultimately serious, I have to ask if the US has no more vacancies in Guantanamo!
    I mean, with Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, the US gave and give a damn about the nationality of captured Al Qaeda fighters and sent them to Guantanamo ... why not with the IS fighters. Or, in other words, why did the US never ask such a question about the withdrawal of the captured Al Qaeda fighters?

    Point #02
    Let's make clear that these 800 captured IS fighters ... including women and children ... are not in a US prison camp, but prisoners of the Kurds in northern Syria, who are "allies" of the US. The fact that the Kurds are a bit overwhelmed with the supply of the many prisoners and need help I fully understand ... but then Trump should also make it clear that it is about this problem and they are no US prisoners!
    And in the context, I also find it strange that he does not call on Turkey in the same breath, which is also a member of NATO and at least on paper ally of the United States and where many of its citizens also went to the IS and are and now prisoners. Could it be that he and Erdogan once again have a dispute and/ or it is also because Turkey calls these Kurds which are allied with the US, to be evil terrorists and fought these Kurds harder as any IS terrorists?
    That would be very hypocritical of Trump or is he afraid of Erdogan and won't him annoy?!

    Point #03
    Ultimately, I can and want to talk only about the captured IS fighters, who have a German citizenship. The numbers mentioned here in all possible sources are not correct in principle.
    Many of the "German IS fighters" were born in Germany and lived here and went to IS from Germany, but they are Turkish citizens or at best have a German-Turkish dual citizenship. Only very few have no migration background and are ... let's say "real Germans! The current number according to our Foreign Ministry is 42 Germans, including children!
    This brings us back to the topic of "Turkey" from point # 02 above ... and why should we take back these Turks / half-Turks? Send the bastards to Erdogan!

    It should be noted, however, that the same "problem" also exists with the immigrants in France and the UK ... eg. Pakistanis in the UK or North Africans in France.
     
  14. Blücher

    Blücher Active Member

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    The German constitution forbids the withdrawal of citizenship. It is maybe possible for people with dual citizenship.

    Germany expects other countries to take back their citizens if they are illegally in Germany therefore we must take back our citizens. Ideally after they have been in a Kurdish prison for a few years.
     
  15. Peter Dow

    Peter Dow Active Member

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    We can't trust Erdogan. Even now he is mobilising to strike at the Syrian Democratic Forces, with not a shred of gratitude in his heart for defeating the ISIS terrorists, so malign is the hatred in Erdogan's heart for any Kurd who aspires to self-government.

    Turkey to deal major blow to YPG terrorists east of Euphrates soon

    Turkey will not let a terror corridor be formed near its Syrian borders, Erdoğan said, underlining that to prevent any such formation, a military intervention east of the Euphrates is around the corner
    President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan made it clear Monday that Turkey will completely root out the People's Protection Units (YPG) – the PKK terrorist group's Syrian affiliate – east of the Euphrates River. Emphasizing that this is a matter of survival for the country during a local election rally in southwestern Burdur province, Erdoğan said, "We will inflict a heavy blow to this terrorist organization tomorrow, if not today." He underlined that a military operation to clear its southern border region of terrorists will take place soon. Criticizing the U.S. for its stance against Turkish military operations in the region, Erdoğan added that as a neighboring country to Syria, Turkey has every right to intervene in the region to maintain its border security.

    All the unity that we have forged in defeating the jihadists will be thrown into disarray by the adventurism of Erdogan. The man is a loose cannon.

    The US is absolutely correct in every sense to stand by our Syrian Democratic Forces allies. Our Turkish and Kurdish brothers and sisters must not be allowed to be put at each other's throats by the scheming of Erdogan.

    The Syrian Democratic Forces and their civilian political authorities, the Democratic Federation of Northern Syria, should be given a chance to show that they can be good neighbours to Turkey and a responsible regional ally.

    This is a time to make peace and to forge new relationships with new partners. This is not a time for more war and Erdogan will not be forgiven by Turkey's NATO allies if he plunges the region into yet more war and bloodshed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  16. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the realities and an issue which we Germans and many other Europeans once told a long time ago about Erdogan and in ambitions!

    I can still remember when I wrote the fact that Erdogan is more interested to fight the YPG (and PKK) as to fight the ISIS and that of 10 bomb raids of Turkish F-16, 8 are against the Kurds ... how much Americans denied this.
    I can still remember how silent the Americans and particularly the Trump supporters were here when during Erdogans visit in Washington his bodyguards started a riot against Kurdish protestors ... at a time when Trump called Erdogan to be a great man and Erdogan in reverse told the same about Trump.

    And I was attacked by some here when I called to kick out Turkey from NATO when his Air Force shot down illegally a Russian Jet in Syrian border region... So, maybe I was all the time right about this bastard in Ankara?
     
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  17. Peter Dow

    Peter Dow Active Member

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    It would be better if we could kick Erdogan out of NATO but keep Turkey in, represented by Turkish opposition parties such as Republican People's Party (Turkey), the Peoples' Democratic Party (Turkey) and others.

    Sadly, the current NATO Secretary General does not have the mental agility to be able to do anything so complicated as kick Erdogan out of NATO but keep Turkey in.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  18. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Well ... the NATO Secretary General has only so much power as the member states give him ... and you can't kick out the head of a state, but let the state itself in. The general problem is that all played and still play the 3 monkeys of not seeing, saying and hearing too much at case Erdogan.
     
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  19. Peter Dow

    Peter Dow Active Member

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    The member states could give Stoltenberg all the power at their disposal but he wouldn't have the mental agility to use that power to defeat the jihadists.

    However, if I were appointed NATO Secretary General, with exactly the same powers, I could get the job done because I have the mental agility required.
    Actually, you can. Simply turf out of the NATO buildings whoever is representing Erdogan - and then give the seat for "Turkey" around the NATO table to the representative of the Turkish opposition parties.
    Unfortunately, the jihadi enemies are more dangerous than can easily be defeated by those playing at monkeys.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  20. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Your claim about lacking mental agility aside … have the member states given Stoltenberg the necessary power to do so? No!
    And this No is from all members … maybe Greece not ... and ask yourself why they don’t give and won’t give and won’t do such a step!

    It could be that you have more mental agility as Stoltenberg, but with no backing and permission by the member states you couldn’t do much. Ask yourself why the leading nation of NATO members doesn’t do right this … the USA … and then try do what you mean against Donald Trump. Sorry .. but have fun I will say ;-)

    Again … try this against the will of the USA, not to name all other members in Stoltembergs position and with his permissions..

    Correct … and it is not only ISIS, there are more groups. Take this Al Nusra or how they want to be called now. They were part of Al Qaeda, officially later told they ended with them realtions, they fight in same area as this Free Syrian Army and they are like Al Qaeda also enemy of ISIS as nearly all other Islamist terror scum is in war with ISIS too. And from whom all is Al Nusra supported at least? Right … Turkey, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States and there are also several serious indications that the USA supported them too.

    But in general is this term “terrorist” in meantime superfluous and it says nothing. Take these Kurds in Norther Syria who are allied with and clearly supported by the USA. Are these Kurds for the USA and for you terrorists? Whatever you think, for the USA they are officially not … but ask Erdogan about and he says they are more evil terrorist scum as ISIS!

    So again … who is now a terrorist and who not?
     
  21. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    They could have been trialed at gitmo, but it's obvious that the US got nothing substantial hence the US isn't risking any trial and holds them indefinably... like your random 3rd world banana republic. That's the walk the US walks.
     
  22. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree. If they're convicted by a military tribunal for being ISIS members, they should be taken out back, shot, and thrown into a ditch.
     
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  23. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Not likely they get convicted now, since nothing has held the US back to convict them 10 years ago and safe the taxpayer a bunch of bucks. So it's obvious they got nothing on against them people.
     
  24. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is that your professional opinion on dealing with international terrorists or no?
     
  25. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    The US is too chicken to have those people enter the US and convict them there, give them life sentences or the death penalty, like what happened to war criminals in the past who were convicted in The Hague (international criminal court) or in Germany (Nuremberg trials). That's FAR and FAR beyond obvious the leaders of the US are cowards and fear the results if they did that.
     

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