Why the world should adopt a basic income

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by LafayetteBis, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. james M

    james M Banned

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    over sight can be Nazi or Jeffersonian yet liberals still imagine they will get oversight right even after they just killed 120 million, and now the Venezuelan fiasco.
     
  2. james M

    james M Banned

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    means nothing $1-2/day is above poverty for billions
     
  3. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    You left out the word "international" in my phrase "international oversight".

    [We almost got there in 1946: with 40 million dead (and another 40 million killed or maimed in wars since then) incalculable property damage, loss of irreplaceable cultural heritage - and that cloud - produced by one bomb - hanging over Hiroshima, many delegates at the creation of the UN desired real international oversight and the de-legitimisation of war, via a UNSC without possession of veto powers.

    Not to mention a new economic system to which all nations would belong, as envisaged by Keynes at that time.

    But great power rivalry destroyed this vision, and so we have failed states everywhere (and Trump wanting to build a wall to keep the chaos at bay) including the Venezuelan fiasco which would not have happened if we had Keynesian economic oversight of all nations.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  4. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, it isn't!

    For the consumer it is the assurance that a market-economy practices the best-possible-cost in order to obtain the best-possible-price for the consumer. And there is no finagling of markets by means of either "government-support" or priviledged monopolies/oligopolies.

    "Homogeneous markets"* in the EU (because there is a universal agreement regarding market practices) helps consumers by assuring the least possible cost in any of the national economies. Of course, consumer prices can vary between countries but that cannot be avoided by any finagling imposed by the EU Commission in Brussels ...

    *Meaning that there are numerous market participants and not just a few. Studies have shown how, in the US, the rush for market-consolidation by means of corporate buyouts has caused the market to be dysfunctionally non-competitive. In very many markets, competition is reduced to only two or three competitors. (See study: Are US Industries Becoming More Concentrated?)
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  5. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Blah, blah, blah.

    What you know about "socialist fantasies" wouldn't fit a thimble ...
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  6. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    It’s not my fault you decided to drive down a deadend road.
     
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  7. james M

    james M Banned

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    Keynes Hitler Stalin Mao were all competing master manipulator ego maniacs who killed millions.

    world peace comes when we look away from these libcommie manipulators toward individual freedom. That is what Jefferson meant when he said, now there is something new under the sun that can can bring peace to the entire world.



    Keynes himself suggested that the total state that the National Socialists were then building was perfectly suited for the implementation of his investment schemes:

    “ The theory of aggregate production that is the goal of the following book can be much more easily applied to the conditions of a totalitarian state than the theory of production and distribution of a given output turned out under the conditions of free competition and a considerable degree of laissez-faire.[67]
     
  8. james M

    james M Banned

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  9. james M

    james M Banned

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    wrong of course in America the poor reproduce more than the rich thanks to liberal anti evolution, anti science policies
     
  10. james M

    james M Banned

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    pure ignorance of course. Why would freedom need oversight?????
     
  11. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    None of this changes that fact that your orthodox economics will not solve problems of economic exclusion faced by many people around the globe. The 'yellow vest' movement in France is merely one manifestation of this.

    Here is Ellen Brown's analysis of the economic situation in the US: at its core is a debt problem (which exists all around the world)

    https://ellenbrown.com/2019/02/21/qe-forever-the-feds-dramatic-about-face/

    new money needs to be regularly added to the money supply to avoid an overwhelming debt burden and allow the economy to reach its true productive potential. Regular injections of new money are necessary to avoid something economists fear even more than inflation – the sort of “debt deflation” that took down the economy in the 1930s.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  12. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    The poor reproduce more than the rich (though patently the poor cannot afford to do so), because the poor have no control over their own choices: if you are surviving on food stamps, there's no incentive to take personal responsibility for your own lifestyle and economic choices.

    But you confirm the point I made in my post, ie, the poor, and those living in poverty, reproduce more than the rich.

    Hence for sustainable population growth, absent war and starvation, elimination of poverty is essential.
     
  13. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Because Ghengis Khan is alive and kicking in the reptilian brain of all of us....
     
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  14. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    That's a mistaken conflation of Keynes with dictators, based on your misunderstanding revealed in the following

    Note the words underlined by me; but of course in a world with an international rules-based system adjudicated by an ICJ (international court of justice) consisting of the world's finest elected jurists, and maintained by a UNSC without veto powers, neither the tyranny of dictatorships (of the Right or Left), nor it's opposite, Libertarianism, which is a tyranny of the individual (whether individual or national) - would exist.

    Then Keyne's " theory of aggregate production", mirrored in MMT, could be implemented under an international rules-based system, not requiring totalitarianism for its implementation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  15. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Orthodox Economics is what led the EU into its present mess because countries believed that the Euro-Box at the EU Central Bank in Frankfurt would forever "lend" states money with which to maintain a high-level of Unemployment Compensation.

    No one (at the time it happened in the early 1990s) saw the profound impact that the Internet would have on how people consume and how people work. We are advancing by leaps&bounds into the Information Age (whilst China garners most of the Industrial Age production with its cheapest costs).

    THIS EVOLUTION IS CLASSIC. It has been happening ever since the Agricultural Age terminated farm-work when steam-driven tractors could work the farms and trains could deliver produce overnight to major customer populations. What followed was the Industrial Age as people flocked from farming into cities to bang products together on a production line close to Consumer Demand (of which they were a principle component).

    That economic phenomenon (the Industrial Age) came to a close in developed countries with the advent:
    * First of widely employed Data Processing (employing robotic manufacturing) and finally the
    * Profound interconnection abilities of the Internet that links customers directly to producers and obviates two intermediary levels between producer and consumer.

    This discombobulation of "market processes" has been gaining speed over the past years and has fundamentally changed commerce in developed markets..

    I agree with Ellen Brown, but because she is stating the factually obvious.

    The question remains, "Are we going to have another major Great Recession". We've had a Great Recession, but not a Great Depression.

    The answer to that question remains with government. Forget America, which has elected a total freak of a PotUS. But in Europe things are different. There are no sick-sick-sick Donald Dorks to throw all the cards into the air. (Europe, mind you, is a GDP of $17.2B vs that of the US at $19.4B.)

    The EU's only drawback is that it expanded far too quickly to the east, and the member-states (Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia - etc., including most of the ex-Yugoslavia) are "baby-states" that must learn to walk politically before they try to run.

    The US and the EU are roughly equivalent population-wise, but the EU - with a population of 513M consumers and the US with 329M - has a 55% higher total consumer-population. Where does the potential for consumer-business growth lie? In the EU or the US ... ?*

    *That is, if the EU does not break apart and become parcelled into individual state market-microcosms that trade with one another with different currencies. Can't happen? Well, in fact, it can but the chances of it happening are dim. (Even Greece is making the effort to stay in a EU because it knows the "opposite option" is a no-brainer.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2019
  16. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    Yes what will instill responsibiltiy in the people is more charity. After all nothing instills work ethic like giving people something for nothing!
     
  17. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nothing promotes a work-ethic like hunger ...
     
  18. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Do you think that people would be less or more hungry if our current capital goods were to disappear?
     
  19. james M

    james M Banned

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    how could it be mistaken when I used his own words?? Keynes was a statist, an apostle who wanted to run the world like HItler Stalin and Mao. Given power people then want more of it not less until you end up with 120 million dead. Venezuela is perfect more recent example. Do you understand?
     
  20. james M

    james M Banned

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    yes rule by the most elite in the world! Too bad HItler Stalin and Mao tried that and 200 million died. America is the only thing that worked because it featured freedom from elites. Now do you understand?
     
  21. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, he even advocated such a statist idea as having the money supply controlled by the government.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
  22. james M

    james M Banned

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    Keynes is responsible for Great Depression so unlikely he would be a good choice for your next Nazi ruler. !+1=2
     
  23. james M

    james M Banned

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    if you know what that means why not tell us.
     
  24. james M

    james M Banned

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    so why do liberal always propose new free lunch programs for the poor?
     
  25. james M

    james M Banned

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    everybody wants to eliminate poverty. Capitalism just eliminated 40% of the planets poverty. Are you intelligent enough to be a capitalist?
     

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