Socialism vs. the American way of life will be on the 2020 ballot

That's right. But there's another factor that is at least as significant, and that is the BS spread about R&D costs and the "need" for drug companies to recover their costs. The fact is that taxpayer dollars are allocated to the NIH, and the NIH distributes those dollars as grants to universities and other centers to research and develop drugs. When a new drug is developed and ready for dissemination to drug companies, the universities are required by contract to freely give at no cost, the documentation they've developed to drug companies who take it from there to market. THE TAXPAYER PAYS FOR THE R&D COSTS.

Yup.

Yes. That averages $900 per person per year.

Good point!!

Exactly. I think of it this way: We pay twice the price of any other country for healthcare and we get mediocre results (with the exception of cancer treatment). If we were to completely copy and duplicate Canada's system, and then add 50% more spending to make sure we have the best system possible, we would have a top-notch system AND we would be saving 25% of what we now pay!!! So the point is that significant improvement is doable.

But that's not realistic. What's realistic is that, done right, we could save a huge amount and that in all probability we would. Not saving is not an option. Taxes would go DOWN. SIGNIFICANTLY.

I read a report that said the cost of producing an EpiPen was under $7.

I'll tell you what's crazy. It's crazy to want corporations to charge all they can and want to charge for goods and especially for critical needs, but that's what the right wants. They seem to want more poverty and more wealth and income in the hands of the rich.

 

Most of that is the left defending themselves from attacks by the right. Not all, but most.

 

simply having Government, does that.

Socialism should be merely using capitalism for all of its capital worth in modern times. Government is an externality to capitalism not socialism.

We could have more efficient and freer markets by solving for deleterious effects of capitalism's natural rate of unemployment in our at-will employment States.

 

I like how all proponents of socialism claim opponents don’t understand the definition of socialism. Then almost every proponent offers a different definition than other proponents.

It’s voluntary, independent of government, then the only response I get to my questions is I will be forced and it will be fine.

It’s demonstrated in other countries but others say it’s never existed. It’s the best but nobody does it voluntarily. It’s like saying given a choice of rocky road or skunk musk flavored ice cream people choose the skunk musk every time.

These threads are bizarre like that late night radio show about UFOs and yetis.

Carry on.

 

Government is socialism.

 

We are on the same page - just a correction to your math though. 3.5 Trillion / 330 million = 10,600 per person .. not 900 I am sure you like this math better in any case.

Your EpiPen number makes the example I gave even more valid.

It is Mafia Corporatism and the highest levels. State Sanctioned extortion. How is it a free and fair market when those offering lower prices are not allowed to compete ?

It is Monopolism/Oligopolism - by definition. We have laws on the books against such practices but these laws are not enforced -on the contrary - these practices are encouraged and some are even State Sanctioned.

At the top of this gravy train are international financiers (and national oligarchs but it matters little to the point). These entities own the Healthcare Oligopolies - via being the major shareholders.

If it was Joe worker who was benefiting from these profits - Joe would spend in the local economy. Instead this money goes to some nameless faceless shareholder - who may not even live in the country never mind spend in the local economy.

This is then like skimming the cream off the top of the milk - multiply by 1000 times over and over - and we are left with skim milk.

 

Gulags and Guillotines...

 

Other than bernie sanders who might be the next democrat party nominee for president

Of course bernie is ancient

Most democrats were in diapers during the Cold War and too young to have played footse with the commies

But thats just an accident of birth

 

You're referring to annual cost. I was referring to monthly cost but I failed to mention it.

 

True, but white supremacy and autocracy vs. the American way of life will be on the 2020 ballot.

 

No, they really do. They know that it's just kids and dimwits looking for an easy ride.

 

Yes, but not in the way YOU think it is.

 

Or .. people who want an easy ride on someone else's dime.

 

I rarely find Left wingers who have anything like an understanding of what Collectivism is/means. VERY rarely. Ultra conservative religious sects have a better comprehension of it, than the average Progressive.

 

Wasn't Obama care supposed to fix most or all of what you say is wrong? Guess that was a complete fail huh.

 

The only people affected by such egregious selfishness are the rigid capitalists who cannot bear to offer anything "free" to anyone anywhere, regardless of the potential good outcome from such compassion. I am personally convinced most people would be willing to work harder in a society where everyone was regarded as valuable as a member of that society.

 

Every person who does volunteer work for their community is a living example of the fallacy of your post. Becoming part of a widespread effort to improve one's society & living environment around us definitely would be a motivator for many or most of us--including myself. Working together to improve all our living environments IS DEFINITELY a highly motivating force.

 

It's been tried repeatedly and always fails. Even the pilgrims tried and failed.

 

I drive by acres of single-wide mobile homes and know darn well that a lot of seniors are hanging by a thread while I live in two countries and travel the world. I don't use Medicare or take Social Security. Don't need 'em. I'm uncomfortable living in a rich country where so many people are poor.

I disagree. They can stop tilting the table against Joe and Jane American.

Which pols are talking about collectivizing production? Not even Sanders or Warren. Ocasio-Cortez? She's so addled, I can't figure what she's proposing.

 

Who told Boeing that they couldn't move their Seattle operation to Seattle?

Who told Pfizer they couldn't move out of the US?

Where were you then, Bevis?

 

lol.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/taxana...-outrage-over-corporate-welfare/#2daef61d27dd

 

You should have solved those problems. Write a check. Do something. Bernie says that Air travel is destroying the earth, yet he still travels by air? He should be setting an example if he's that concerned. Al Gore made a fortune on a book that claims we are destroying the planet, yet he lives in a 20,000 sq ft home and has at least one Yacht. What's with that?

 

even Less the way You thing it is.

 

If "Americans already have" all the basics for a living, then how do you account for the hundreds of thousands of homeless in America? That's not only a stain on our culture, it's a stain on our humanity. And capitalism is in large part to blame for its existence.

 

Then, according to your own post, it isn't the Nordic people, or their brand of socialism that's at fault in their current misfortunes, it's waves of immigrants incoming from the Middle East, who don't honor the established system that's openly accepting them. That doesn't imply a failure of the system. It implies a failure to adapt to an unwelcome, destructive outside force impinging onto that system & wrecking havoc. I suspect ANY economic system--including ours--would be equally afflicted.

I DO BELIEVE that the vast majority of Americans would be highly motivated to work toward the success of the Democratic Party's socialist oriented policies once they discovered how they could & would improve their own lives and the lives of those they love. I know I would. A big part of our national problem now, is that most Americans feel they've been left out of the benefits produced by our nation. Some of these socialist ideas would help them feel reconnected to those benefits personally, & that definitely WOULD create both suport for and motivation to work for the success of those programs.