Socialism vs. the American way of life will be on the 2020 ballot

Can you follow my reasoning when I point out to you that your rich capitalists have been "robbing from the poor" to enrich themselves for generations, much like the Sheriff of Nottingham in Robin Hood lore? We've supported that system because the rich hold power not only in economics, but in every other aspect of ruling & controlling a society, and they have always taught us to respect & support the system that maintains their wealth & control. As long as Americans felt they were getting a portion of that to improve their own conditions, we were content. But things have changed. And those changes have occurred rather quickly on a historic time scale. The statistics speak for themselves, and they say loudly & clearly, the average working American HAS BEEN left out, while the rich & powerful have enjoyed increases of income of hundreds of percentages over the past three decades. Average Americans have worked hard & focused their energies toward self-improvement & family improvement, but their incomes have actually decreased in relation to the costs of daily living during that same time period. Americans feel they've been left out for a reason. They actually have been left out. Any economic system that results in such uneven income disparity doesn't deserve the respect & loyalty of the people it injures. I feel it can be fixed, but the fastest way to accomplish that is to combine American capitalism with some prominent socialist ideas, and get relief to long working Americans who need relief as soon as possible. Those purists who reject any ideas not glued to capitalism, will work hard to keep things the way they are now. We have to be open-minded enough to see thru their self-serving tirades, and work for a better America thru change.

 

I account for it the same way any reasonable anthropologist/psych does. When sufficient time has been spent (multiple generations) in complete safety and plenty, the detritus of humanity will establish itself clearly. These are the people who cannot be helped. When the richest and safest nation on earth cannot help you, you are beyond help.

And yes, America CAN provide a very good and secure life for anyone who wants it. Many many thousands of migrants from all corners of the globe have arrived on your shores with little or nothing (and continue to do so), and make good within a generation or two.

The vast majority of your citizens are not homeless. Your homeless have smartphones and drug habits. Sorry, but your argument is absurd. There will always be a certain percentage who cannot tolerate ordinary adult responsibility. In other societies, their families take care of such people. Keeping them at home, and keeping them busy around the house or the farm. In American society, families abandon them - or they themselves abandon their families - but that's a separate (though important) issue.

 

1) The problem is that those who push for more 'social programs' are the same people who want mass immigration from the Third World. The only way such people are ever going to get or sustain those programs, is to severely limit all immigration. Since that's not likely to happen, you are doomed to what you have now. Especially since you'll never have what Scandinavia once had, because you're not a monoculture.

2) Most Americans are too smart to indulge the fantasy that Socialism will mean 'the same, but more of it'. Most people implicitly understand that in order to 'equalise', ALL must come down from the present standard, to a roughly Second World standard. It's only the delusion children signalling their virtue over soy lattes, who think things will just carry on exactly as they are (for them).

 

Yes, things have changed. PEOPLE have changed. They have changed as a result of far too much mollycoddling. Those coming to America from places where mollycoddling doesn't happen - where people still expect to have to do for themselves, are making incredibly successful lives for themselves in America. And as long as that is happening, all of what you say is just excuse. Excuse for the spoiled children who don't like where their dependence has left them.

I'm sorry, but as a member of an 'oppressed' migrant family of (dark) colour, who started life in the West with very little, but managed to not only educate themselves out of poverty within less than a generation, but also to build on it and build on it, your arguments are trite nonsense to me. Very typical of those trying to find a way to keep enabling dependence.

 

I'm talking "majority", not universal support, at least at first. I suspect there will always be individuals who resist acceptance of ANY good idea. But I DO think the vast majority of Americans would approve & support a system that improved their personal lives or the lives of those they love.

 

But it DOESN'T improve their lives. That was my point (which you avoided, interestingly).

 

We have a Constitution which defines our usage of socialism. It is express, not implied.

We should be making money not losing money on public policies with a welfare clause General and a Commerce Clause in particular.

 

How do you know? How can you be so sure? Many successful ideas had doubters & detractors before they were successful. Why not try it and let the results decide rather than prejudge outcomes?

 

Social programs for African Americans have been around for decades, and look where they're at. Such programs are deeply harmful.

 

equal protection of the law is always better.

 

No Republican can actually define 'socialism' or find examples in America of what they mean.

They are fear mongering, and the younger GenXrs and Millennials etc are no more afraid of the word that they are 'fascism.'

 

Silly, silly remark above. African Americans as a group are far better off than fifty years ago because of the CR programs.

 

Of course it was a complete fail - "Lipstick on a Pig". This is what I have been telling you. The Establishment is both Red and Blue and Healthcare is a 3.5 Trillion dollar /year gravy train. That's not chump change. The same international financiers that Obama served - and now Trump - do not want to see that gravy train cut in half. That's not good for business.

It is a "Pay to Play" system - if you play - you get paid - and everyone knows it. Do you think Obama got a 65 million dollar book deal - for a book that will not make near that much money - because he challenged the Establishment Oligarchs ?

Do you think Obama knowingly armed Al Qaeda and the Islamist Jihadists that went on to form ISIS because he is on the side of civil liberties ? Of course not - he did it because that was what he was told to do.

Why were we in Syria to begin with ? What was the point ? Shits and giggles ? Is it some coincidence that a few years prior to the war that Assad did not allow a major pipeline to go through Syria - in favor of a rival faction - Russia/Iran ? If you can come up with a better explanation I am all ears. The point of the war was not to remove Assad - it was to destabilize Syria to thwart a competing interest.

Why have we been in Afghanistan for 18 years ? If you think it is because of "Al Qaeda" or to help the people of Afghanistan - I have a shiny new bridge for sale. Afghanistan is another pipeline route to the "new silk road - Energy corridor to energy hungry India and China.

I will not claim defacto that the above was the specific rational - what I will say defacto is that it is not for the BS reasons given to us.

 

ACA is limping because the GOP will not run the program as it should be for the benefit of the American people.

 

Obamacare was supposed to fix our healthcare system with socialization of healthcare and all it did was make things worse. Somehow people believe even more socialism is the cure.

 

Throwing good money after bad won't fix obamacare

 

Tax cut economics won't solve the problem either.

 

If that were the case, but . . . it is not.

 

Obamacare was never supposed to fix the systemic issues healthcare system it was lipstick on a pig - most of the main issues that plague our healthcare system were not addressed.

Nor was Obamacare an attempt at socialization of healthcare in any realistic sense. There was no real attempt to rid the system of private for profit.

If it had been Republicans who had put the same program as Obamacare forward - you would not be crying "Socialism". The fact of the matter is that Obamacare was modeled after a Republican plan.

Obamacare is not even close to anything resembling socialized medicine. Your inference that socialism is not the cure on this basis is then extremely flawed.

 

Trump fans are looking for some way (any way) to save their god in 2020, so why not try socialism? Well, for one thing, most Americans look at solutions and a positive vision for the future - socialism means nothing to us. Second, among Democrats there is a vast array of opinions, ideas, platforms, visions and plans. To paint them all as "socialist" won't sell except in Trumpland and they'll buy anything. The incessant beating of the "socialist" drum by Trumpets will wear thinner that tissue to all but the most brain dead in Trumps "base" by November 2020. For most thinking voters, it's already a dead issue. It'll be deader than roadkill once Mueller's report and Congressional hearings hit the paddles in a couple of months. Then the Trumpet's will go 100% on defense to stave off impeachment..

 

I grew up in the deep South surrounded by blacks & black communities. While many blacks today still suffer many of those long-term inequities in their daily lives, and live in areas regarded as "low class" by most whites, I've seen immense improvement in average black lives in many measurable areas since the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1965. While they don't enjoy unquestioned "equality" with whites in daily life, they have made notable gains in most areas, and especially with the younger generations. I applaud that progress, and I DO BELIEVE many of the social programs & laws passed by Congress & various state legislatures have help that process immensely.

 

Socialism is the nationalization(government taking control) of major industries. Like when the government of Venezuela took direct control of Venezuela's oil industry.

An example of it occurring in America would be the institution of a "single payer" healthcare system, whereby the government would basically take all healthcare control away from private corporations, and place it directly under the control of massive government agencies and bureaucracies, similar to the notoriously-crappy NHS in England.

Another example in America would occur under Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's New Green Deal, which calls for a "national energy grid" which would basically entail the federal government seizing control all of the power plants and the entire electrical distribution grid in the US. Imagine the government having the ability to throw the switch, and plunge the entire country into blackness and anarchy. Utterly terrifying, but some(astonishingly-stupid) people actually think that would be a good idea. When the government holds that kind of power over its citizens, it's a short hop from socialism to fascism. Venezuela is still in the process of figuring that out the very, very hard way.

You can't find many(if any) examples of socialism in America, because, ya see, America isn't a socialist country. I'm sure that may come as a shock to some.

The closest America has recently come to socialism was probably Obama's idiotic failure of a Green Energy Deal ver 1.0 debacle. Obama figured it'd be a great idea if the government got "indirectly"(*wink wink*) involved in the manufacture of solar panels to harness the magical power of unicorn farts. That little socialist experiment only cost the taxpayers a mere half a billion dollars with a big goose egg for a return on our investment.

The latest crop of "democratic socialists" are planning much, much, much bigger experiments. I'm sure they'll get it right this time. I have no doubt it'll be every bit as successful as the time socialism was successfully done... um... NOWHERE EVER.

 

FALSE An example of it occurring in America would be the institution of a "single payer" healthcare system.

FALSE AOC's "national energy grid would basically entail the federal government seizing control all of the power plants and the entire electrical distribution grid in the US.

FALSE "Obama's idiotic failure of a Green Energy Deal ver 1.0 debacle. Obama figured it'd be a great idea if the government got "indirectly"(*wink wink*) involved in the manufacture of solar panels to harness the magical power of unicorn farts. That little socialist experiment only cost the taxpayers a mere half a billion dollars. The latest crop of "Democratic socialist" are planning much, much, much bigger experiments."

I am not impressed.

 

A lack of equal protection of the law is the problem. Enforce the law regarding employment at the will of either party for unemployment compensation on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States to solve simple poverty in a market friendly manner; that also solves for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment through the necessary and proper use of socialism.

 

Yeah, well, you're impressed by AOC so...