Mueller Finds 10 Obstruction Cases That Barr Says Aren't Crimes

Discussion in 'United States' started by Len_A, Apr 18, 2019.

  1. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    Mueller found no wrongdoing by trump
     
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  2. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    Buried in footnote 745 (page 120), Mueller’s Report crushes last remaining MSM "collusion" hopes centered on June 9, 2016, Trump Tower meeting involving Donald Trump Jr:
    Mueller's report makes no reference to the involvement of Fusion GPS in the Trump tower meeting, but the Russian attorney involved in it, Natalia Veselnitskaya, was a Fusion GPS associate and met with founder Glenn Simpson before and after the Trump Tower meeting, why didn’t Mueller look into that? The Report also notes Veselnitskaya's work for Prevezon, which was charged with money laundering and sanctions violations, yet fails to note that Clinton campaign contractor Fusion GPS was working for her and Prevezon on that issue. How does a collusion investigation miss that?

    This meeting was supposed to be the best evidence of collusion; Junior was meeting up with this Russian government attorney to negotiate over sanctions in exchange for promised “dirt” on Hillary! The DNC reported their hack about 10 days before the meeting, I’d expect Junior thought he’d be offered the hacked DNC material, what “dirt” did the Russian lawyer have? She offered records of wire transfers from Russia to accounts related to Hillary’s campaign, but said Trump’s team would need to investigate these for any illegalities. She said the Russian banking authorities deemed the transactions a tax evading capital flight exercise, but she figured they’d be illegal foreign campaign contributions which could be of interest smearing Hillary. Junior wasn’t interested and left, the Russian lawyer tried to persuade those who remained that Trump should try to get the Magnitsky Act repealed. There was no deal.
     
  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    nope, the rule that the DOJ can't indict a sitting president is what saved the President, anyone else and they would be going to trial

    only congress can decide what to do with these wrongdoings found in the report

    also because of the Trump precedent, no future President will ever have to speak under oath, they can lie to the public like Trump and refuse to answer under oath

    we will call the the Trump Precedent... Sad!
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
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  4. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    The plural of nothing isn't something.

    Sorry.
     
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  5. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Giggles
     
  6. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Not the best. The most entertaining.
     
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  7. Len_A

    Len_A Active Member

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    The Mueller report has revealed more details about Donald Trump's attempts to interfere in the investigation. On multiple occasions, he ordered close aides and associates to influence or undermine investigators -- at one point even instructing the top lawyer at the White House to get Mueller fired. Trump also encouraged his former campaign manager to try convince former Attorney General Jeff Sessions to end the investigation.

    The federal crime of obstruction of justice applies to “whoever corruptly, or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or communication influences, obstructs, or impedes or endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede the due and proper administration of the law." If ordering your aides to impede in a federal investigation isn't obstruction of justice, I don't know what is.

    You are wrong. Intent is irrelevant. Actions, as described above, are what count. You can, and many times will, be charged with obstruction, regardless of intent.
     
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  8. Papastox

    Papastox Well-Known Member

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    Haven't Democrats been humiliated enough with this hoax? If Mueller could have nailed him, he would have. Mueller and his band of merry partisans stuck to it for 2 years trying to find something, anything to pin on Trump. They failed, because he didn't do anything wrong or he would have been indicted. Now Democrats are trying to deflect from the avalanche that is coming against them. THEY are the ones who colluded with Russians. THEY are the ones who tried to unseat a President and it goes all the way to Obama.
    Remember, during the 2012 election, Obama told Medvedev that he would have "more flexibility" on missile defense after the election. Or when during a debate between him and Romney, Romney said, "Without question, Russia is our number one geopolitical foe. They fight every cause for the world's worst actors. The idea that he has some flexibilty in mind for Russia is very, very troubling indeed. To which, Obama derisively answered, " The 1980's are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because the Cold War's been over for 20 years." People like Biden, Kerry, Chris Mathews and Rachel Maddow echoed Obama. Hills said, it was "somewhat dated" to be worried about Russia. Rich, coming from HER.
    Jump ahead a few years, and Obama and his cohorts contrive a conspiracy theory about Trump and the Russians that they KNOW is a lie because they implemented him ------ all to allow Hillary to win and to save Obama's precious "legacy." ( like who wanted his legacy saved?) Their plan doesn't work so they go to Plan B which is to make Trump's life a living hell and somehow keep pushing this narrative so that he would be removed from office. The Democrats lied, cheated and tried to steal the presidency. Now that they were discovered and heads will roll, they are doubling down on their humiliation. They are really teched in the head. They are way too crazy to be in charge of anything, let alone the government. Give it up. It's over. If you continue, Trump will win in a landslide, because people will feel that he has been persecuted. Why don't Democrats work FOR THE BETTERMENT of the American people? They need to get over themselves, see a shrink and get better.

    Obama, Hills, Lynch, Rice, Powers, Yates, Brennan, Clapper, Comey, McCabe, Page, Strzok, Ohr, etc
    Lock them up! Censure Schiff, Swalwell, Auntie Maxine, Nadler, Clyburn, Pelosi, Schumer, etc who kept this phony narrative alive 24/7 for 2 years and counting...the list is endless
     
  9. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Do it, stop talking
     
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  10. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but in addition to the requisite intent, obstruction will require the completed act; if Trump told someone to lie, but they didn't -no obstruction (just the attempt). Pelosi (and others) doubt they can impeach for obstruction as it is, do you think she should try to impeach for "attempted obstruction" instead?
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  11. Len_A

    Len_A Active Member

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    No, they should not. Senate is firmly in Republican hands, and it would be a waste of time to pursue impeachment. A GOP Senate let Bill Clinton skate on perjury. No one in their right mind would think a GOP Senate would do anything to Trump on attempted obstruction. Plus it would hand him a major talking point for the reelection campaign

    That said, the Democrats will do as the political left has frequently done. Eat their own young, in this case by keeping harping on something that, frankly, at the least, energizing his base as much as it energizes Trump's opposition, and that's counter productive. But that said, they could, and should, point out every single time he attempted to obstruct Mueller's investigation. Beyond that, time to work on defeating his pompous ass in 2020.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  12. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, and it looks like that's the way this campaign will play; the Democrat establishment will continue to harp about this Russian collusion, they'll go on about Barr's despicable advocacy for the unmentionable and dig as deep as they can with increasingly far-fetched investigations into every aspect of his past; meanwhile the Democrat radicals will be pushing for ever increasingly outlandish demands, they want this Green New Deal, to abolish ICE, unlimited and universal healthcare, soak the rich, boycott Israel... How this plays out at the ballot box seems predictable to me, but I don't see it from the radical perspective.
     
  13. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
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  14. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe there is a sale on nothing burgers. 10 for the price of none!
     
  15. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't seem that "tacit" to me, Mueller's report seems rather categorical on the fact there was actual Russian interference, that it was sophisticated, wide-ranging, complex and far-reaching (none of which supported by specific evidence). This is one of the Report's assertions I'd like to see substantiated better. It has been reported 13 Russians impersonated citizens in different social media to purchase about $100k in online advertising and promote different political manifestations, protests or rallies pro and anti-Trump (mainly relating to immigration and Hillary) -which seems comparatively given the campaign spending on advertising.

    We've seen extensive discussion on the "IRA" and "Putin's Chef" right here. According to Mueller's Report this is the GRU, but I'd also like some substantiation here. Mueller claims Russians hacked the DNC and gained access to Hillary's emails, but I also find no evidence in support. This is another area that needs some documentation. It is possible, and it could be this got redacted because it would compromise intelligence sources and methods, but we really don't know what evidence there is of the effectiveness of Russian interference.

    Another issue with this Russian meddling is Mueller's conclusion Russia figured it would be more advantageous for them that Trump get elected, I honestly don't see why. If I were Putin I would prefer to have a ton of undisclosed highly compromising 'dirt' on President Hillary.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  16. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    Mueller basically said that because of rulings by the OLC that a sitting president cannot be indicted, he was punting the prosecution of Dirty Donalds obstructive behavior to the congress, who definitely have the authority to pursue the charges.
     
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  17. Len_A

    Len_A Active Member

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    I was trying to be diplomatic. You are, of course, correct.
     
  18. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    Why has NO ONE mentioned the Macedonian youths who filled the social airwaves with anti Hillary propaganda, or who paid them???
     
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  19. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    ?
     
  20. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Bernie ?
     
  21. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So what is congress waiting for if they have the evidence on Trump?
     
  22. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    The Democrats are probably trying to figure out how impeachment proceedings would affect their chances in 2018. They can count on a smackdown by the Republican majority in the Senate once they're done with the proceeding in the House. Some may figure this would be fine and help them win elections, on the theory they've got a great case with plenty of incontrovertible evidence and nobody likes Trump. Others may not be so sure their proceedings will play well with the electorate tired of all this investigating, Mueller's conclusions, the ambiguities in certain findings, controversy regarding the investigation itself, and may worry the anti-Trump bias that will be evident in their hearings will not play well with many voters.

    I think they should review Mueller's report and conclude its time to move on, focus on policy advancing proposals that will draw stark distinctions between what Democrats and Republicans offer, use their proposals as the platform for their candidates. I advocate this because I'm tired of all this investigating, and because I anticipate most of the public doesn't support many of the Democrat's proposals; the Green New Deal, abolishing ICE, protecting the transgender community, reparations for slavery, unrestricted abortion on demand, soaking the rich, banning fracking... I want the voters to know where the candidate stands on these issues when they cast their ballots in 2020. Then again, I'm not a Democrat, I know Democrats think each of these issues is a 'slam dunk' and that just those "deplorables" in flyover country oppose them.

    I expect the Democrats will instead continue with this investigating, they'll subpoena the redacted bits and get just some, subpoena for more and likely get a judicial determination against the disclosure of grand jury material. They'll summon Mueller, Barr and Rosenstein whose testimony will leave plenty unsatisfied. They'll continue with their own investigations delving deeper and farther afield in search of that damning evidence as they leak distortions implying the imminent release of some bombshell that never comes to pass. This could go on until the elections.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  23. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    not true. but I understand how explicit citing of wrong doing is not wrong doing because - TRUMP!

    pathetic bumpersticker response.
     
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  24. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    If trump said a bad word - as I understand he did - that quifies as wrongdoing
     
  25. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

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    *LOL*

    Yes. Ignore the Mueller Report. The sad feelings will pass.
     
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