trump to hungry: Let them eat "whatever."

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Jimbo11, Apr 17, 2019.

  1. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Everybody. Whatever has to be devised so that poverty can be eliminated under the capitalistic system we have in place.

    If it turns out that it cannot be done under the capitalistic system as now constituted...then adjustments in the system have to be made until it can.

    And if it turns out that even an adjusted capitalism cannot do it...then I would advocate for abandoning capitalism for a different system...until we find one that will do the job.

    Why don't you stop telling me what I should and should not do or say or write?

    You asked a question...I responded in a way that dealt with your question supposing, perhaps incorrectly, that you would understand the situation...

    ...but now that I see it has to be spelled out in more detail, I am attempting that.

    We'll see how this works.

    Answered.
     
  2. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have not lied with statistics.

    I have presented statistics that bear on what was being alleged.

    If you have a problem with that...it is your problem.
     
  3. Qohelet

    Qohelet Active Member

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    I hope you guys don't take this as insult, but if I think qualities of society what's really needed to make it any better. Here's some ideas.

    First we need to address basic needs (including housing, clean water) and how to take care of those - figuring out resources and what kind of planning is needed.
    Second thing is responsibility in various areas - including politics without corruption, reasonable taxation to fund necessary institutes (health, social, all departments...)
    Third thing is to set goals: how to improve regular citizen status, increase equality and gain some more stability by doing so.[that's an issues now in Finland, inequality is growing, not rapidly, but still]

    Just quick draft, but that's how I think..If you imagine war time, how people behave in that situation. I'm not hoping war, but in war, people have better focus as country. Not just thinking 'me, me, me' all the time. Maybe I'm wrong about this, I know my limits and I'm not the sharpest guy around.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  4. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Okay, I can agree with that. Any thoughts on how to take money from illegal aliens and get them to contribute? How about drug dealers? How about the homeless?

    Sir, I have never told you what you can say and what you can write. But you should not begrudge me when you answer a question in a way that disguises your true meaning. That is on you.

    As for telling you what to do, I believe that someone who talks the talk should be willing to walk the walk. Compassion should mean action. That is the basis of the questioning - it determines who is real and who is just squawking.

    Concerning a society where funding is taken from some and redistributed to others: Do the ones on the receiving end of the redistributed funds have any responsibility to society? Should they modify their behavior to lessen their impact on the system?
     
  5. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Finer minds than I will have to come up with the mechanics.

    One cannot get blood from a stone...so anyone looking for blood ought not to concentrate on stones.




    I did not disguise anything.

    Keep your cool.

    THAT may be our problem. You are under the misapprehension that what you "believe" makes a significant difference to me.

    Yeah...they should stay out of the way of people actually working and producing. That should be their job...something they may be very good at. We could call them: Stay the Hell out of the way specialists.
     
  6. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure you have. Hopefully you understand why and are being knowingly disingenuous. Your problem is that you are dealing with someone who understands how to “lie with statistics”.
     
  7. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have not lied with statistics.

    I merely presented some statistics.

    If you want to dispute them...do it.

    Or continue with this cutesy game you are playing...and I will continue to respond to it.
     
  8. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I don't think most people who blame "the system" absolve the parents.
    Perhaps. What do we do with addicted or alcoholic parents who neglect or abuse their kids?
    We either do something or we don't to feed and protect children.
     
  9. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am not under that misapprehension. It is obvious that it makes no difference to you. However, most people know there is a difference between "taking action" and "squawking". Of course, you are at liberty to disagree with those people too. By all means, continue doing what you "do" to help the poor!

    Agreed, but I would add a caveat upon that. The non-producers should take the responsibility of placing the least amount of burden upon the producers. If the producers are responsible for the upkeep of the non-producers, the non-producers are responsible to minimize their monetary impact upon the producers. Of course, you are at liberty to not agree with that too.
     
  10. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The cutesy game is yours. There’s a book titled “How to Lie with Statistics” written in 1954. You should read it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  11. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I disagree with almost everything you say, Roo. We simply are of different minds.

    I will continue to do what I am doing...attempting to deal with this problem in a political way, so that it does not have to be resolved the way it has in the past...like in late 18th century France or early 20th century Russia.


    My guess is that distribution of our great wealth so that EVERYONE has sufficient...will require a change in how we distribute. Money...the way you think of it...will probably end.

    I would hope we build on whatever gets us started in the direction I want to see us go...so that the "non-producers" get more and more of the essentials...and some non-essentials also.

    I understand that people like you want to have a "well they cannot have that" incorporated...even if it could easily be given.

    No getting around that kind of thinking.
     
  12. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The "cutsey" game is not mine...it is yours.

    I know how to lie with statistics. Almost anyone can do it...it does not take a genius...nor a book on how to do it. (Except for people who need help with easy things.)

    BUT I WAS NOT DOING IT HERE.

    I presented some statistics that were easily obtained.

    If you dispute them..do it.

    Or...continue with the game. I'll play it as long as you want.

    I never tire.
     
  13. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure you are whether you realize it or not.
     
  14. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No doubt. The current prosperity can't go on forever considering limited resources and expanding populations. Of course, both you and I will be gone and forgotten before that time arrives. Would be interesting to see what the world looks like in 1,000 years. A pity that we won't have the opportunity. Mortality beckons.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  15. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I never tire...and you are all wet.

    If you want to dispute the statistics I posted...have at it.

    Or...continue the game.

    Oh, did I mention that I never tire?
     
  16. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    On that we agree.

    I wonder if people of a thousand years from now will look on us and our times...the way we look on the people of a thousand years ago.

    Be fun to know.

    Hey, as quickly as things move these days, I'd love to know what it will be like 20 years from now.

    Watch a movie from the 1990's...and the cell phones look like footballs.
     
  17. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Schools today give out free breakfast and lunch. When did that become a thing? We didn't do that in the 60's and 70's.

    Why should I have to pay for someone else's kids? Maybe the parents could cut back on the Disney vacations and cell phones so they can pay for their own kids.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
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  18. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Taxes are a small part of the problem. How much longer can we sustain a system where Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, and Warren Buffett worth more than the bottom 50% of Americans?
    As I said, I think support for our private enterprise system is at risk.
     
  19. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There you go again.
     
  20. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yup!
     
  21. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    Yes there are millions of children of irresponsible adults that go hungry. A family of 4 get 640 a month in food stamps. That is more money than I spend monthly on a family of three by a half. I don't spend 100 a week on food and believe me I am not starving.

    What needs to be done for poor families is to provide transportation once a week to real supermarkets where the poor can get access to quality food. Many times their food stamps are spent on cans of soup at a corner store for $3.00 and where a small box of cereal costs $5 and a 1/2 gall of milk is 4.00. A van picking up 6 mothers and taking them 20 min to a supermarket once a week will go a lot farther than giving them more money. One van driver can take 20 people a day food shopping or 100 mothers a week. I don't think there is anyplace in the country that is not 20 min a way fro a supermarket of a walmart supercenter.
     
  22. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Where does paying rent come in to this?
    Minimum wage in America
    $7.25 an hour
    Minimum wage in Australia is $18.93 per hour

    And although you might live short term on $1 a day it it a very restrictive diet that will ensure you end with malnutrition. It is also a diet that take a LOT of time in hunting bargains (not always easy if you cannot afford to travel to where the cheapest food can be obtained, and mostly TIME.

    Have you also thought that it is not only the children of the households who are dependents requiring care?
     
  23. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I'm no Trump supporter, but the elephant in the room needs attention:

    you're proposing that the 'poor' of America are actually hungry :roflol:
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
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  24. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    And what will you do to ensure that everyone earns their share? Because as long as you fail to do that, the number of people in repose will increase and the number of people paying the bills will decrease. Then where will you be?
     
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  25. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    And painting the right wing as uncaring with just as wide a brush is just as wrong. There is a honest belief that if you give people something it takes a way the incentive to work for it and it cheapens what is given. Just like most people who work for a living will splurge when you win $100 on a lottery ticket or a football game. You will spend that money differently that if it took you 1/2 the day to earn it.

    And it is my impression that Trump supporters or at least the most vocal ones are lower economic working people.
    Who don;'t get government subsidies but see their lives as little better than the people on government dole. The red hats are worn by the hourly workers where I used to work- guys making $15-20 an hour and paying 125 a week for health insurance. Now these workers have $75 every week taken from thier paychecks and see 1/3rd of that go to entitlements. They rather have that $25.
     
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