How Has Trump Harmed America?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Pycckia, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    I see many progressives claiming that Trump is destroying America. I just don't see it.

    But I don't see everything, so I'd like to hear some criticism. I'd like to propose a few rules that I think will make the discussion better.

    (1) No pejoritives. An argument is not strengthened by referring to Trump as the "Bloviator-in-Chief." If Trump did something to make this country worse, say "Trump did this to make this country worse," not "The Orange Lardass is ruining this." I should think this is obvious.

    (2) Refrain from hyperbole. Simply state what you think has gone wrong without attempting to make it look as dire as possible. It is easier to discuss things that have deteriorated when there is less reason to assert that things aren't really that bad.

    (3) Avoid predictions. Stick to actual and quantifiable problems that have gotten worse.
     
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  2. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    You don't like pejoratives, but there are aspects of Trump that sound pejorative, but are simply descriptive: he's a narcissist and a pathological liar. Having someone like that as President is embarrassing, but our institutions have shown surprising resilience.

    There are three crises going on in America right now that Trump could actually do something about, but isn't:
    1. Drug epidemic
    2. Healthcare
    3. Concentration of wealth

    I could elaborate on these, if you like.
     
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  3. Vet1966

    Vet1966 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Beyond attempting to uphold present laws, President Trump needs help from the Congress for legislation to fix all of the problems that are plaguing the USA after 16 years of neocon and progressive mismanagement. If you need to blame someone, you should look to your Senators and Representatives.

    1. The drug epidemic is on two fronts - the first is the drugs flowing across the wide open southern border which the Democrats won't allow President Trump to close. The second is trade treaties that allow the unrestricted flow of opioid "pharmaceuticals" from the EU and China - which President Trump is working to fix via trade treaty renegotiations and tariffs in spite of the lack of help from the Congress.
    2. President Trump has tried multiple times to work out a bipartisan fix for healthcare - the establishment Senate Republicans such as John McCain and Jeff Flake would not support the measure and the Democrats hate President Trump so much they would rather harm our citizens access to health care rather than work with Trump to fix the problem
    3. Concentration of wealth - Wow - you are so wrong! After 8 years of Obama overseeing the largest transfer of wealth in US history as the middle class was demolished and all of that wealth flowed to those who paid off the Democrats and Republicans with large infusions of cash - which very few of our Congresspeople would challenge. You might notice that President Trump single handedly slowed the flow of cash away from the so called "Masters of the Universe" and back to the American working family by simply negating all of the Obama EO's and all of the anti-business bureaucratic regulations from the EPA, FDA, NLRB and others.

    The problem with the left wing hate machine is that they have replaced common sense and love of country with "we gots to get Trump by any means possible - including the destruction of our Republic".
     
  4. Vet1966

    Vet1966 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Whoa there - after 8 years of Obama and all of his lies and all of the corruption he infested into our government and all of the times he spoke so highly of himself and the accomplishments he never had. Consider that the singular accomplishment of Obama was his now defunct Obamacare where "You can keep your doctor - Period!" where "You can expect to save $2500 a year" - Period!" and where "you can keep your health care plan if you want to - Period!" were, in the end, "You can read about the legislation after we pass it"

    I well remember all of the Obama years of watching the American Pharmaceutical manufacturing industry regulated out of the USA and to foreign shores - and then I read your partisan crap - what a joke!
     
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  5. PPark66

    PPark66 Well-Known Member

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    Action is character. What actions have the Trump campaign, transition, administration taken in regard to the Russian attack on our country? Now put their behavior together with the Russian intent to damage our country and their decision that Trump represented their best opportunity to create their desired result. Yes. He's damaging the country: self interest over country is the Trump way.
     
  6. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You should throw in Benghazi and the tan suit to go completely off topic. You are only halfway there.
     
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  7. Vet1966

    Vet1966 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This Russian Collusion thing started about seven years ago when "Obama was overheard over a hot microphone telling President Dmitri Medvedev of Russia he would have "more flexibility" to negotiate with Putin after the election."
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-more-flexibility-russia/
    This was followed by the CIA/NSA warning Obama and the DNC about Russian hacking to which the White House gave a "stand-down" order.

    What did Obama mean when he said "more flexibility"? Did he mean he would cover for the Russians with a stand down order allowing the Russians free reign to interfere in the 2016 American Presidential election. Sounds like Russian Collusion to me.

    President Trump is the only entity out there who is attempting to do something about the Russians interfering in American political campaigns. He's also doing something about the Chinese doing the same things. I don't see the Congress doing anything in response to Russian or Chinese aggression.

    Let us not forget President Trump is undercutting the Global hegemony Russia was attempting to build with its controls on Russian oil exports. And then there was Trump sending all kinds of support to the Ukraine after Obama allowed the unrestricted Russian takeover of the Crimea. Let's not forget Trump chastizing Angela Merkel for making Russia a primary energy source for Germany. Then there was bombing the Russian Air Base in Syria. I could go on and on about the many ways President Trump has undercut the Russians.

    And here you are blaming President Trump for the Obama legacy
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
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  8. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Let's elaborate about the drug epidemic. I found this:

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...p-taking-action-drug-addiction-opioid-crisis/

    You can read about several specific actions that have been taken.

    Your response?
     
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  9. Qohelet

    Qohelet Active Member

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    Most of people in Finland think that Trump is incompetent, but that's not even biggest issue.

    Constant tweeting is weird habit, some interviews are huge mess, all kind of odd things coming from Trump's mouth, umbrella is too difficult to close, etc. Lot of questions: why Trump speak like a child? I'm bad at English and my sentence is usually much longer compared to Trump's. I've heard 0 remotely intellectual speech from Trump so far. Why he say things like: "I'm very stable genius" and "I have big brains", who speak like that? Seriously, I don't know anyone else who's saying things like that.How anyone can be proud about it? (how Trump behave).. whole package is just a mess, oh and he's lying a lot (latest fun was: "I love wikileaks" vs "I don't know anything about wikileaks" - when everything is on tape / youtube, .. I don't get it. Something is wrong with Trump. Supporters just don't see it.

    Trump isn't doing much to get respect. That's one harm. When Trump was in Helsinki, I think it was just disaster. Like puppy & Putin.
     
  10. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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  11. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    President Donald J. Trump is Taking Action on Drug Addiction and the Opioid Crisis
    HEALTHCARE
    Issued on: October 26, 2017

    The last time that page was updated was 18 months ago.

    The situation has only gotten worse, with drug overdose deaths in 2016 expected to exceed 64,000.

    Drug deaths in 2017 WERE 70,000. Not expected. That's the actual number. They couldn't even be bothered to include 2017's statistics on the page. 2017!!!
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
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  12. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Preliminary results from 2018 suggest that opioid deaths are slightly decreasing:

    -----------------
    “Every year for 23 years, we’ve set a new record for overdose deaths,” says Andrew Kolodny, who researches opioid policy at Brandeis University in Massachusetts. But if provisional data from the first half of 2018 hold up, he says, “it could be the first year in 23 years that deaths don't increase."

    -------------------

    https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/n...disease-control-cdc-data-fentanyl/2501866002/

    So we may just have turned the corner. It many not be getting worse for the first time in 23 years. Sounds good to me? Do you disagree?
     
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  13. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Can you point to quantifiable harm rather than your feelings about Trump?
     
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  14. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    The US military started attacking and killing Russian forces within a month of Trump's inauguration. How many Russian special operators did Obama liquidate?

    "The death toll from the skirmish, already about five times more than Russia’s official losses in Syria, is still rising, according to one mercenary commander who said by phone that dozens of his wounded men are still being treated at military hospitals in St. Petersburg and Moscow.

    Most of those killed and injured were Russian and Ukrainian, many of them veterans of the separatist conflict in eastern Ukraine, according to Alexander Ionov, who runs a Kremlin-funded group that fosters ties to separatists and who’s personally fought alongside pro-government forces in Syria."

    BLOOMBERG, U.S. Strikes Killed Scores of Russia Fighters in Syria, Sources Say
    By Stepan Kravchenko , Henry Meyer , and Margaret Talev, February 13, 2018.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...d-to-kill-scores-of-russian-fighters-in-syria
     
  15. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Expelled 60 diplomats because Skripal.

    Levied sanctions, Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, which specifically called out Russian election interference.

    Closed Russian consolates in SFO, DC, NYC

    Sold arms to Ukraine.

    Sent a sternly worded missive joining with May, Macron, Merkel.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/tru...trump-officials-repeatedly-criticize-moscow-6
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
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  16. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Twitter is a relatively new thing and you can expect future presidents to use it more often also.

    Trump was just the first.

    I'm sure if they had Twitter 50 years ago we would have seen those presidents using it.

    I'm sure FDR would have rather made a tweet while sitting on the crapper than holding an hour long fireside chat on the radio.
     
  17. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    The most damaging aspect of the Trump Presidency is his push to back more extremist views on race relations and climate science. This has resulted in an entire generation of young
    Americans who feel their lives are being thrown under the bus to pay for current corporate profits.

    The worst consequence of Trump’s actions and attitude is that he’s creating a whole generation of socialists.
     
  18. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    1. securing borders and declared a national emergency
    2 I'll give you that he isn't doing anything on this but the Republicans are the biggest reason this issue doesn't get resolved
    3. eliminating tax deductions and increasing the standard deduction is a start but he does need to increase the tax bracket for the highest earners as well as fix colleges and schools

    the problem is that I don't see any dems doing anything to fix these issues. I think Trump isn't perfect but he is better than the other options.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  19. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    Absurd!!!

    Old school Republicans are what created the situation we are in with the environmental issues and socialism. Also the problem with corporatist is on both sides but more so on the right, but Trump isn't to blame for the issues that existed long before him.

    Lastly, tension between races is because of identitarians left and right and SJWs, and not because of civic nationalists.
     
  20. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    They'll grow out of it. Same thing happened to my generation.
     
  21. Vet1966

    Vet1966 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How can one answer such a silly post. It's gone from collusion to obstruction and is now morphing into to how President Trump has turned a generation of Americans toward socialism - as though maturity won't send all of that crap to the garbage bin as the youngsters have families and face the real responsibilities and needs of family life.

    I get it! You don't like Trump, and you've been denied the usual propaganda that he's colluded with Russia and even obstructed justice - and now that all of those groundless accusations have failed or are failing, you're making a reach and blaming the taste younger people have for socialism on Trump rather than pointing out that young people tend toward socialism or some gimmee program until they mature and figure out that everything comes with a price tag.

    Daniel, I award you the disingenuous finger for ludicrous hyperbole.
     
  22. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    America may not forgive Trump even if he starts working hand in hand with the Senate and our intel agencies to sanction Russia for meddling in our elections.

    Fact: the GOP and Trump crawled into bed with Russia and Putin.
     
  23. Vet1966

    Vet1966 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Where is the evidence to support your "FACT"? Based on actual facts, Obama and the Democrats are the entities that crawled on their knees to their Russian Masters while President Trump has been the one American who has actually punished the Russians and, through foreign poliicy, has slowed the Russians down in their quest for global hegemony.
     

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