There's an old saying

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by bricklayer, May 20, 2019.

  1. bricklayer

    bricklayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There's an old saying that goes, "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face." This statement implies that one should not lash out in response to something that they don't like in such a way that their lashing out makes the situation much worse for them self.

    The political left has put all of its efforts into trying to get the American voter to personally dislike President Trump enough to get us to "cut off our noses to spite his face". That's just not going to happen. We will not return to their stagnant economic malaise. We will not return to having the "boot of government on the throat of business". We will not abdicate our place in the world or the American way of life. We will not go back.

    We would much rather put up with their incessant nit picking than have their best intentions imposed upon us by force of law - so - no - we will not cut off our noses to spite President Trump's face (to paraphrase the very old saying).
     
  2. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, if the majority of Americans have their way you won't have a choice.
     
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  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    The political left did not have to do a thing

    Trump made himself unpopular just by being a ****

    Of the first order

    upload_2019-5-20_22-41-3.jpeg

    Darn it filtered ****

    So make that a TWONK (Twit With Opinion No Knowledge)
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  4. Papastox

    Papastox Well-Known Member

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    So you like paying taxes at every turn or are you one of those who don't pay? Smart Americans are sick of Democrat policies, so you're right. We must do our due diligence and vote. Democrats can pay more. That sounds like an excellent plan...
     
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  5. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    upload_2019-5-20_23-15-31.jpeg

    The only ones who do not pay thier share of taxes are....
     
  6. undertheice

    undertheice Well-Known Member

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    i hate to break it to you, but we will be going back to the boot and even beyond. the reason for this failure of common sense (an oxymoron, as sense is so seldom common) is that we each live inside an echo chamber of our own making. i have to admit that i'm a perfect example. i know that communal effort within a capitalistic system creates the greatest good for the greatest number of people. i've done the math, so to speak. i've taken into account human nature, something ignored by most of the "experts". i've utilized the historical records of the various systems and generated a series of scenarios based on those examples. i've witnessed the outcomes of nearly every conceivable system and included that data into the equation. i've come to my conclusions and nothing short of the second coming is going to alter my belief. the average joe on the street isn't going to go to so much trouble or put so much thought into his generating his belief system. he's going to hear about "income inequality" and that governmental regulation is the only answer to making his life more "equal" to those he is told are unworthy. he's going to be inundated with the notion that "the majority" is always right, the great lie of democracy. he's going to, slowly but surely, become a member of the mob and demand a piece of the pie he has had no part in creating. this is, after all, a world of great wealth and he has been told time and again that it is his birthright to be included in that wealth.

    are you beginning to get the picture? the horde is upon us and, no matter how well we may arm ourselves, the thinking man is no match for the mob.
     
  7. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    The poor. OR can you give an actual account of what constitutes a "fair share" cause there is no metric out there that says the rich pay anything but. And what is a "fair share" of what I worked for to give to those who didn't work at all?
     
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  8. HTownMarine

    HTownMarine Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well this is awkward...

    President Donald J. Trump paid more in taxes and a higher effective federal tax rate than his predecessor Barack Obama, socialist icon Bernie Sanders and Mitt Romney. According to leaked tax returns from 2005, which leftwing opinion anchor Rachel Maddow on MSNBC bombed in revealing, President Trump paid roughly $38 million in taxes on $150 million in income.

    That’s an effective federal tax rate of roughly 25%.

    In 2015, Mr. Obama released his federal income tax returns showing he and the First Lady filed jointly and reported an adjusted gross income (AGI) of $436,065. The Obamas paid $81,472 in total tax, giving them an effective federal income tax rate of 18.7%.
     
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  9. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your calculus is "bad science" - along with being some kind of black vs white paradigm - something which makes no sense with respect to a very grey reality.

    The fact of the matter is that extreme socialism and extreme capitalism both end up at the same place on the spectrum. In both cases you end up with a few elite owning most resources and means of production.

    Since this math is quite simple - I hope you are beginning to get the picture.
     
  10. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Hello? If the "thinking man" knows that he is no match for the mob - then the "thinking man" would make efforts to keep the mob on his side ... not alienate himself from them. Just say'n. Ain't rocket science.
     
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  11. MolonLabe2009

    MolonLabe2009 Banned

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    The top 1% of income earners pay 40% of the Federal income taxes.
    The top 10% of income earners pay 70% of the Federal income taxes.
    The top 50% of income earners pay 96% of the Federal income taxes.
    The bottom 50% of income earners only pay 4% of the Federal income taxes.

    So, you are right. The bottom 50% do not pay their fair share of Federal income taxes.
     
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  12. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Trump would have you cut off your
    Nose and both ears.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  13. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The undemocratic Democrat's efforts has the opposite effect, unfortunately, they don't have the ability to see this. They should concentrate on creating a better society in the states where their can, that's where their energy should be channelled.
     
  14. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

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    I pay my taxes and regret I don't pay more. (See if you're capable of figuring that one out.)
     
  15. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol...The picture seems to have gone completely over your head.
    Who the **** do you think worked so hard to create such great wealth?
    It was the workers who have always been shafted, thrown under the bus and ignored by the elite who raked in the dough by giving the workers as little as possible to get by and creating permanent underclasses to do the heavy lifting.
    Hell, a lot of that wealth has been built on the blood, sweat and tears of illegal immigrants.
    The slaves built the great wealth of the antebellum south and got nothing but whippings, rapes and death for their troubles.
    So, yeah, prattle on about the undeserving hordes, but you ain't fooling anyone.
     
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  16. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Yup - we should take the highest amount that the lowest wage earner can afford in taxes, and everyone (including corporations and businesses) should pay that same amount. That would make it fair across the board. Let's say $500 a year. That would be what, about $100 billion a year in tax revenue. Show of hands - how many people want that to be the budget for the US government per year? Anyone? Wouldn't even cover a third of the interest on our current debt - let alone any expenses.
     
  17. undertheice

    undertheice Well-Known Member

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    and where was it i said anything about the extremes? of course any extremes are doomed to failure. an extreme position leaves no room for changing course. you've given me a "you're wrong" without bothering to mention where you believe i'm incorrect or even giving an alternative. this isn't rocket science folks. this is about human nature more than anything else and that simply doesn't change.

    primary-
    the temporary nature of communal effort within a capitalistic framework utilizes the best of both systems. in the short run, a team of equals allows the flexibility and incentive necessary to accomplish tasks. in the long run, the capitalistic framework ensures the freedom inherent in private ownership and reinforces the incentive. when the collective collapses, as it inevitably will, it can be reformed using different elements and everyone goes their own way amicably. as long as there is an equitable agreement in place beforehand, a measure of the original proceeds will go into the next communal agreement and the outliers will walk away with a proper share to invest in their next agreement.

    secondary-
    is it my understanding of human nature that you disagree with? face it, we humans are just animals. we would rather laze about all day and collect the fruits of someone else's labor than put in the necessary effort to improve our own circumstances. we gathered into groups in order to survive, but we remain in groups simply to make life easier. well, a successful life ain't easy. it takes a great deal of effort to improve one's lot in life and a substantial majority of the population isn't up to the task. the basic reality is that most men would rather be given a fish every day than go through the arduous task of baiting a hook, tossing in the line and waiting patiently for something to latch on. we have given all of those reluctant fishermen the excuse to throw away their rods and reels by creating one of the largest and least productive welfare states in history. we have railed against the stigma of collecting unearned benefits to such an extent that it is nearly considered a sign of success to collect enough to never have to get off the couch. this is human nature, to desire something for nothing and to expect respect for the lack of effort.
     
  18. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    This seems to be the new Trumpster line

    Pretend that Donald Trump isn't the vulgar low life schmuck that he plays in tv, and instead plaintively whine that he is a victim of (pick one or both) a) an imaginary coup staged by an imaginary "deep state", or that the only reason he is disliked is because of an equally imaginary campaign in the American press.

    You go on to bellow that you are not going to give up "our place in the world or the America way of life" (with much flag waving).

    But your fuhrer is giving up our place in the world, and has been steadily since the day he took office and gave China its biggest foreign policy victory. Trump has divided us from and alienated our allies. And he has given Putin a by your leave in every area of Russian expansion.

    As for the American way of life, he is preserving that, that is, if you're a new robber baron or in the 1%.

    The United States was not in a "stagnant economic malaise" when Trump came along. It had been steadily growing at rates of 2 to 2 1/2% for seven years, and has continued to do so, at pretty much the same rate. The trend lines have not changed, dispite what the fuhrer says. Indeed, other than Trump's deficit exploding tax cut, there's almost nothing in the way of economic accomplishments for this Administration to turn to.

    At this point, the standard Trumpster line is to default to the blowhard spin line about eliminating regulations. Name a few. I can, BTW, and none of them are good for you. Things like payday loans, junk health insurance and predatory lending have all rebounded nicely thanks to Trump's efforts. So has insider dealing by lobbyists who are running regulatory agencies for the benefit of their clients (and not for you).
     
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  19. undertheice

    undertheice Well-Known Member

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    i thought it was a hoot that your reply included the term "rocket science" when the reply i was in the process of writing to giftedone began with the very same expression. but now on to an earnest reply.

    is it really ethical to go with the mob simply because they have the power? the thinking man, the moral man, will follow what he knows to be the truth, no matter the consequences. though it may be preferable to reign in hell than to serve in heaven, sacrificing excellence for mundane mediocrity is literally a living death to those with real desire. perhaps you disagree. perhaps you are willing to simply go along to get along. who am i to judge?

    in aiming for excellence we always swim against the tide and the mob despises us for it. should we match their hatred and wallow in the cesspit with them?
     
  20. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    NO. The thinking and moral man tries to lift the rest of humanity with him - he doesn't shun humanity. The paranoid and lazy man only sees a "mob" instead of fellow humans. But it's easier to blame everyone else but oneself, isn't it?
     
  21. OldGuy?wise

    OldGuy?wise Active Member Past Donor

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    Since you have some facts I would like to get some more information if you have it. What is the percentage of the total income for the country that the top 1% earns or receives? If the top 1% of income earners earns 40% of the total income for the country, then they should pay at least 40% of the income tax. We could also look at the percent of total national income for the 10% and 50% group also.

    Jeff Bazos is worth $137 billion. If he had paid more taxes, he might be worth only 10 or 20 billion, and that might severely affect his life style. The top actors and actresses in Hollywood get paid more for one movie than I will earn in 3 lifetimes. If we collected more taxes, we would have better roads, better schools (Maybe our own kids could be the doctors, and we wouldn't have to import doctors.), better medical care (our international rating sucks), etc.
     
  22. undertheice

    undertheice Well-Known Member

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    do you ever get tired of being so wrong? the workers? what did they risk? time? were they compensated for that time at an agreed upon rate? well then, they risked nothing, were paid for their labors and walked away with what wealth they themselves deemed was proper. on the other hand we have the investor. he risked the capital and reaped the rewards. do you think their investment appeared out of thin air? failure was always at the door, but it was ignored for the prospect of wealth to be attained. underclasses exist because they allow themselves to be considered as such. no man need grovel unless he is unwilling to risk.

    illegal immigrants? really? are you honestly going to try to throw out that old chestnut? illegal immigration is one of the major reasons so many poorer american citizens simply can't find a job. while i'd agree that companies who hire them should be far more heavily fined than they are at present, it is our bleeding heart we have to blame for the massive influx of latin american "refugees". blaming their hiring for wealth inequality is like blaming abolitionists for jim crow.

    and slavery? you really are stretching to bring that up. it has been well over a century since slavery was abolished and few, if any, of todays greatest accumulation of wealth have anything to do with the practice. though we now consider slavery a stain upon humanity's history and i find the very idea abhorrent, it was standard practice for centuries and i'd suggest you get over yourself and let it take its place in the past.
     
  23. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you believe the majority of left wing voters support far left agenda, you are sorely mistaken.
     
  24. nra37922

    nra37922 Well-Known Member

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    So what's keeping you from cracking out the old checkbook and writing a check?
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  25. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    BS.

    Half the country has zero federal tax liability, yet enjoy the defense our military brings, the interstate highways they drive on, and a federal judicial system that keeps them safe.

    They pay nothing for those things. Nothing. Zero. Nada.

    What exactly is their fair share?
     
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