There's no such thing as 'gay marriage,' says John Piper: 'It's dishonorable and shameful'

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by XXJefferson#51, May 21, 2019.

  1. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    16,798
    Likes Received:
    17,571
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sticks and stones may break my bones.............
     
  2. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    16,378
    Likes Received:
    7,057
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What bothers him is that his religion has not filed a successful and exclusive copyright on the use and publication of the word ' marriage'.
     
    rcfoolinca288 and ECA like this.
  3. AltLightPride

    AltLightPride Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    2,034
    Likes Received:
    1,215
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Marriage is not an individual freedom issue.

    Individual freedom, like freedom of association, is only between consenting adults.

    Marriage, however, involves nonconsenting children. In fact child-rearing is the main reason it existed throughout human history.

    So the individual freedom argument only gets you as far as civil unions with no adoption, which a lot of people including myself completely support.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  4. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So single parents should have their children removed.

    Only married people can have children. Get pregnant when you're single, go to jail.

    And married couples are REQUIRED to have children.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
    rcfoolinca288 likes this.
  5. AltLightPride

    AltLightPride Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    2,034
    Likes Received:
    1,215
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I think they shouldn't be able to adopt. But I said nothing about removing children.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  6. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    16,378
    Likes Received:
    7,057
    Trophy Points:
    113
    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/14-556_3204.pdf

    Oh there are a host of other circuit court and appellate court decisions I can list as well if you want, including the first, second, tenth, the fourth etc.

    Your argument convinced only the majority on the sixth circuit. Not a lot of persuasion there in federal courts across the country, and That was overturned in the case I linked.

    The thing about our little 'gay agenda', We seem to have won most of it in less fifty years. Suck it up and deal with it.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
    rcfoolinca288 likes this.
  7. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If they aren't intended to be parents then their children should be removed.

    Only married people can have children. Get pregnant when you're single, go to jail.

    And married couples are REQUIRED to have children.
     
  8. AltLightPride

    AltLightPride Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    2,034
    Likes Received:
    1,215
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    [​IMG]
     
  9. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Where in the Constitution does marriage requires the intent to produce children?
     
    rcfoolinca288 likes this.
  10. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Just following your ridiculous logic to its natural conclusions.

    But I understand you dodging the obvious points.

    The government has no place requiring that couples produce children.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
    rcfoolinca288 likes this.
  11. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The government should have nothing to do with marriage
     
    rcfoolinca288 likes this.
  12. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The government has no place in marriage
     
    rcfoolinca288 and HereWeGoAgain like this.
  13. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2018
    Messages:
    31,941
    Likes Received:
    15,598
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Are married couples (male and female) required to have children?
     
  14. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2016
    Messages:
    27,942
    Likes Received:
    19,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Correct!!! Righties are against big government, right until they want to control your life.
     
    rcfoolinca288 and ECA like this.
  15. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,518
    Likes Received:
    27,044
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It most certainly is an issue of civil liberties and individual freedom! First and foremost, it is that.

    This would also be an entirely different argument from that in the OP, trying to claim that the involvement of children somehow invalidates gay marriage as a civil liberties issue. Children are neither here nor there. People do not need to be married by law to have or adopt children, nor to raise them to adulthood. Gay and straight couples alike can do this, married or otherwise, as can -and do- single people. Some people and couples make better parents than others, of course, but that has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
     
  16. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,518
    Likes Received:
    27,044
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Then why are conservatives obsessed with how government defines and limits it?
     
  17. AltLightPride

    AltLightPride Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    2,034
    Likes Received:
    1,215
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Marriage is *designed* for child rearing. Always has been throughout human history. Ever read a marriage contract? Half of it is about money, other half is about kids.

    You can buy a car and never drive it. Doesn't change the fact that cars are made for driving.

    Your argument is literally saying that you can buy a car and put it in your garden, therefore cars have nothing to do with driving.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  18. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2018
    Messages:
    31,941
    Likes Received:
    15,598
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Let me try this again...are married couples (male and female) required to have children? It's a yes or no answer. You should be able to handle this.
     
  19. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The ability or intention to procreate is entirely irrelevant to who can marry.
     
  20. AltLightPride

    AltLightPride Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    2,034
    Likes Received:
    1,215
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No.

    You still have no point. Do you have one to make? It's a yes or no answer.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  21. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2018
    Messages:
    31,941
    Likes Received:
    15,598
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So you agree married couples are not required to have children which blows a hole through your argument. A man and woman can legally marry whether or not they want children. Therefore two men can legally marry, two women can legally marry. Having or not having children has NOTHING to do with being able to marry.
    Glad we cleared that up.
     
  22. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    16,378
    Likes Received:
    7,057
    Trophy Points:
    113
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  23. GodsMan

    GodsMan New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2019
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    And you have Scripture to back all of this up I suppose.
     
  24. GodsMan

    GodsMan New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2019
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    What is often overlooked in the Gay debate is the fact that God not only created male and female but instituted the order of male and female in the relationship. What He instituted comes down to us as 'the natural' as well as the Scriptural. Homosexuality, then, is not only unnatural but a representation of disorder and even chaos.
     
  25. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    14,839
    Likes Received:
    4,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Marriage doesn’t necessarily involve children and children can happen without marriage.

    Historically, marriage wasn’t about child rearing, only about child bearing. In plenty of societies, especially among the rich and powerful, children wouldn’t be brought up by their biological parents (married or not). The link between marriage and children there was more about managing inheritance of money and power, not the good of the children themselves. That’s generally where the major religions got involved because they were closely bound in to that wealth and power within the hereditary political structures.

    Today, we recognise that the well-being of children relies much more on them having a generally healthy home and family environment and there is no fundamental reason why that requires marriage, be it exclusivity heterosexual or otherwise.
     

Share This Page