Is the naive, militarily challenged, foreign policy neophyte, Trump starting a war with Iran?

Yes, during the Cold War, which ended 30 years ago, and the Russians shot one of them down, proving my point. Nations, including ours, do not like their military bases spied upon and they are likely to take some kind of action ... which Russia did.

And so did Iran.

Trump knew all this when our military sent the Global Hawk on its mission to spy on Iranian military bases.

Who provoked who? Answer the question.

Because the bombers will not attack the U.S. Because they are not surveillance aircraft. Because they are harmless. Russians have their military exercises and we have ours.

Please provide a source that explains that the U.S. military sent out a UAV to spy on a Russian military installation.

 

This is very important, which, of course, is why you have ignored it, preferring to talk about meaningless trivia.

There are two key questions.

The first one is, will the U.S. military send up another UAV to spy on Iranian military installations?

The second one is, on June 27 will Iran surpass limits of its stockpile of enriched uranium set by the 2015 international nuclear deal unless European partners in the agreement do more to help it circumvent U.S. sanctions?

What I feared a year ago may happen. When Trump withdrew the U.S. from the JCPOA and sharply increased economic sanctions, he practically invited Iran to do the same. We are now seeing the consequences of that decision.

For more info, see https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...6a9afaa0e3e_story.html?utm_term=.6d3b9b195630

 

So you will ignore my questions and my comments, and instead demand answers from me on things I've not even discussed?

Why don't we get back to the basics, such as the question I asked multiple times...what are the odds we go to war with Iran? Also, do you still think the mine attacks against the tankers were a "false flag?" Is Trump a coward for not following through on a retaliatory attack?

 

I've never claimed they did. You're trying to create a strawman.

And to me a nuclear capable bomber (even one as antiquated as TU-95 Bears) far, far, far more threatening than unarmed spy planes.

 

an unmanned drone in international airspace is definitely NOT a provocation. Regardless of its purpose. The Iranians violated international law in firing on it.

 

Looking back, the OP seems kind of silly now....but TDS does make people look quite foolish

 

Trump sides with Iran!

“China gets 91% of its Oil from the Straight, Japan 62%, & many other countries likewise. So why are we protecting the shipping lanes for other countries (many years) for zero compensation,” Trump wrote on Twitter.

“All of these countries should be protecting their own ships on what has always been … a dangerous journey,” Trump continued. “We don’t even need to be there in that the U.S. has just become (by far) the largest producer of Energy anywhere in the world!”

Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei totally agrees with Trump. He says the American navy has no business in the Strait of Hormuz.

 

You are really dodging! It's kind of funny, but I don't mind reposting my questions.

What are the odds we go to war with Iran?

Do you still think the mine attacks against the tankers were a "false flag?"

Is Trump a coward for not following through on a retaliatory attack?

 

"I look forward to the day when sanctions can be finally lifted and Iran can become a peaceful, prosperous and productive nation. That can go very quickly. It can be tomorrow. It can also be in years from now," Trump said, adding, "So I look forward to discussing whatever I have to discuss with anybody that wants to speak."

This is how Trump thinks he can get Iran to the negotiating table.

"We will continue to increase pressure on Tehran until the regime abandons its dangerous activities and aspirations, including the pursuit of nuclear weapons, increased enrichment of uranium, engagement in and support for terrorism, fueling of foreign conflicts, and belligerent acts directed against the United States and its allies," Trump said.

Over the past year, that approach hasn't worked on China.

Over the past year, that approach hasn't worked on Iran.

In the 30 months that Trump has been President, that approach hasn't worked on anyone, not North Korea, not Venezuela, not anyone. In each case Trump has made matters worse.

Take, for example, this statement from Trump. "I can only tell that you we can not ever let Iran have a nuclear weapon. And it won’t happen."

We had a working agreement that did that very thing. Trump destroyed it.

So we find ourselves in the situation where Iran attacked and destroyed a very expensive American airplane, or UAV, and Trump takes the Neville Chamberlain approach to placing sanctions on the Ayatollah and his generals.

The Ayatollah and his generals are laughing at Trump's impudence.

They are laughing at our President!

 

I guess you gave up on Trump. I don't blame you one damn bit.

I say that because always your focus is on me, not what I am reporting about Trump.

Let me give you a hint. Not surprisingly, I decide what I am going to write about, and right now it is about Trump and his Iranian fiasco. Don't ask me how he should get out of the mess he created because I won't answer. I am not responsible for the chaos, Trump is.

 

You posited some weird things, and I'm trying to get clarity. What things you ask? OK OK, you win! I'll ask you!

What are the odds we go to war with Iran?

Do you still think the mine attacks against the tankers were a "false flag?"

Is Trump a coward for not following through on a retaliatory attack?

 

That's right, but spying on military installations by the enemy is.

Actually, we don't know that for sure. The Iranians just might be telling the truth. We know the Trump administration had been goading the Iranians for weeks. I have described that in this thread. If that UAV was in Iran's territorial waters, do you think our military would admit that? No, they would say exactly what they are saying now. Or there could have an error in navigation.

I am not at all sure that is important. International law regarding territorial waters is ancient and it has mostly to do with shipping. The spying capabilities of UAV's and their long-range technology is new.

Is it okay for a UAV to be flying just outside territorial waters while spying on an enemy's military installations? What would be our reaction if Russia or China did that to us?

Don't ask me to answer those questions. I can only ask the questions. The answers are above my pay grade.

 

I screwed up and I caught it too late. Obviously, I did not mean "impudence." I meant impotence.

Damn, working too fast again.

 

It is time to review where we are.

We all know Iran is a bad actor. Does that give Trump the right to provoke another Middle East war, a war that would be ten times worse than Iraq because of Iran's military capabilities?

The shootdown of the RQ-4 surveillance drone did not happen in a vacuum. Other events preceded this event, including Trump's foolish mistakes and his high risk attempts to provoke Iran.

After foolishly withdrawing from the nuclear deal with Tehran struck by the Obama administration, which permanently barred Iran from making a nuclear weapon, Trump ratcheted up sanctions — including, in April, a move to shut down Iran’s remaining oil exports.

The only peaceful avenue that Trump offered out of this economic vise was the acceptance of a dozen draconian U.S. dictates that would completely reverse its foreign policy, essentially calling for regime change.

On May 5th, Trump ordered a battleship-carrier strike group (CBG), led by the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln, and a bomber task force, including B-52s, deployed off Iran’s coast.

Five days later, on May 10th, the Pentagon announced a second display of force: the U.S.S. Arlington and a battery of Patriot missile systems would join the Abraham Lincoln. The Arlington carries U.S. Marines and an array of aircraft, landing craft, and weapons systems to support an amphibious assault.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and National Security Advisor John Bolton are both war hawks when it comes to Iran, and both have called for regime change. Iran assumes the two are speaking for Trump, despite Trump's statements to the contrary. Trump's penchant for wanting it both ways is well known to the Iranian leadership. Since actions speak louder than words. They take his rhetoric with a grain of salt.

The surveillance capability of the RQ-4 drone include high-resolution radar and long-range sensors with long loiter times over target areas. It can survey as much as 40,000 square miles (100,000 km2) of terrain a day, an area the size of South Korea.

The Pentagon says the Global Hawk was a little more than 20 miles off the coast of Iran. It does not matter if it was 50 miles. The drone's mission was to spy on Iranian military facilities, and that is what it was doing when Iran shot it down. Ordering up that UAV was a clear act of provocation. In other words, it was stupid, and the Commander-in-Chief is fully responsible.

Iran's territorial waters extend out twelve miles from the coast. That is a distance of eight miles between the territorial limit and the point of attack according to the Pentagon. At such a small distance, miscalculations can easily be made.

Iran called Trump's bluff, and Trump went into his Neville Chamberlain mode. His incompetence and stupidity is showing.

 

Javad Zarif ✔ @JZarif


.@realDonaldTrump is 100% right that the US military has no business in the Persian Gulf. Removal of its forces is fully in line with interests of US and the world. But it's now clear that the #B_Team is not concerned with US interests—they despise diplomacy, and thirst for war.



4,508
11:23 AM - Jun 24, 2019

Trump is an idiot. He says the wrong thing at the wrong time. His timing is absolutely "perfect."

 

Recently, the Iranians shot down a very expensive piece of American military equipment, causing a very serious military crisis that could lead to a disastrous war with Iran and her proxies throughout the Middle East. However, Trump backed down and used economic sanctions in retaliation. Trump wants to talk to the Iranians, but the Iranians do not want to talk to him.

Iran has threatened to shoot down any American surveillance aircraft spying on their military installations, and so the crisis continues.

Throughout all of this, we now have a new acting defense secretary. He is former army secretary, Mark Esper, and his first day was yesterday!

Prior to that we had another acting defense secretary, Patrick Shanahan. He quit Friday because it was revealed he and his son beat up Shanahan's estranged wife, the son beating up the woman with a baseball bat.

We have not had a qualified defense secretary for six months. Shanahan was a former accountant executive for Boeing, a bean counter. However, he was one of Trump's reliable sycophants.

The last qualified defense secretary was Marine General James Mattis. He quit six months ago when Trump ordered American troops out of Syria, thereby turning the region over to the murderous dictator, Bashar Al-Assad, and the Russian government. The Russians have a naval base at Tartus.

Considering this a uniquely stupid and self-destructive idea, Mattis quit. In six months he has not been replaced.

Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed, and Trump was forced to rescind the order.

That seems to happen a lot with Trump.

 

Trump's fans have given up again. They are overwhelmed by Trump's sheer stupidity again.

 

In the wake of Sarah Sanders and Patrick Shanahan quitting in the past two weeks, now Acting Customs and Border Protection Commissioner John Sanders (no relation) is quitting. He will be replaced by Mark Morgan, the acting director of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, as his new border chief, replacing the current acting commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection. Matt Albence, the deputy director of ICE who led the agency before Morgan’s arrival, will resume once more as ICE acting director.

Did everyone follow all that. Isn't this fun?

Occasionally, some of Trump's fans claim I hate Trump. It is their pathetic excuse for being unable to defend their hero in the face of all of his boneheaded mistakes. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

The Trump administration is great entertainment.

 

What's it like having Trump living in your head rent free? The sufferers are fun to watch.

 

“North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States,” Trump said in August 2017. “They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen.” He added, “He has been very threatening beyond a normal state, and as I said, they will be met with fire and fury, and frankly power the likes of which this world has never seen before.”

We didn't believe Trump then, and we don't believe Trump now.

Trump tweeted on June 25, 2019 that an Iranian attack on "anything American will be met with great and overwhelming force. In some areas, overwhelming will mean obliteration. No more John Kerry & Obama!".

How about Neville Chamberlain?

To Trump, the answer for everything is tough rhetoric. He doesn't have the balls to attack Iran.

 

You really should read the post you are responding to. I said, "The Trump administration is great entertainment."

Didn't you enjoy the post? I thought it was rather clever. Best of all, it is the truth.

 

Oh, I understand TDS very well.

 

There are two key questions.

The first one is, will the U.S. military send up another UAV to spy on Iranian military installations?

The second one is, on June 27 will Iran surpass limits of its stockpile of enriched uranium set by the 2015 international nuclear deal unless European partners in the agreement do more to help it circumvent U.S. sanctions?

What I feared a year ago may happen. When Trump withdrew the U.S. from the JCPOA and sharply increased economic sanctions, he practically invited Iran to do the same. We are now seeing the consequences of that decision.

For more info, see https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...6a9afaa0e3e_story.html?utm_term=.6d3b9b195630

 

Trump began the provocation toward war with Iran a year ago when the removed the U.S. from the JCPOA and hit Iran hard with economic sanctions.

Now it seems the lunatics are running the asylum.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has said that the United States is "considering a full range of options" regarding rising tensions with Iran, including military options, but emphasized that Trump has said that he does not want to go to war.

Pompeo hasn't learned yet? Americans do not trust anything Trump says. He has lied to us too many times. After all, he was the one who said, “No, it’s not what I meant. It’s what I said."

Pompeo offered a set of actions that could restore deterrence.

Now we are getting to what Trump really wants. "Restore deterrence" is code for trying to force Iran to do what Trump wants them to do. And, if they don't do what Trump wants them to do? Trump is "considering a full range of options, including military options" and regime change.

Here is the lunacy. “We’re not going to have Iran have a nuclear weapon,” Trump told reporters.

We already had an agreement with Iran that permanently barred Iran from making a nuke. Trump trashed it!!!

Is Trump bipolar? Did he forget that he removed the U.S. from the agreement? Does he think Americans forgot that part? Is he nuts?

Iranian President Hassan Rouhani says the White House is "suffering from mental disability" and behaving as "no sane person," in the wake of new sanctions imposed by Trump earlier this week which an Iranian spokesman said have closed the "channel of diplomacy forever."

Hmmm, interesting.

 

Yes. And we haven't shot down any Russian aircraft conducting intelligence missions on the outskirts of U.S. air space yet. And there have been many over the years.