This is what a Donald double down looks like.

Sorry, Republicans, but business owners and CEOs don't make long-term financial decisions based on tax cuts.

 

A person's perspective is invariably tainted by their own position- but even more by their concepts of fairness.
The working class does not do everything. Granted, many think they do- but in fact, they help manufacture or operate the things which have been brought about by the abilities of exceptional people. Exceptional not only in creativity, but in drive, focus and judgment. One might look at the situation like the people on an old boat. While those who row help make the vessel move- it is those who navigate that actually make it beneficial to move. They are the ones who determine how and where and when, and otherwise- those who row would simply go in circles and accomplish nothing.

This is not to say that there is not value in what they do- but it is to say it is foolish and arrogant to think they are responsible for the results. Most of those leaders of industry could accomplish and thrive without the working class, because they know the way. The volume and great size of what they might have built would not be there- and that means that the benefits, which DO serve the working class, would not be their either. Cell phones for example- could be created by the gifted, but not necessarily shared with the average people at all. To say that the working class don't earn a living wage is in direct contrast with the quality of life in this country, the wealth of that class overall. It is also true that within what you call the working class- many do not do well.... because they do not choose to do more than necessary to get by. I've been a business owner for over 50 years; founding 7 in that time, still running one small company that does business all over the world. I've known many famous business leaders- and I always asked them how they were able to achieve what they had built. The answers always credit the people they assemble, but it is the motivated ones, not the drones, that get the recognition because they are the ones actually making the difference. One such leader was Frank Barton, founder of Rent-A-Center. His company grew so fast they were doubling the size of their headquarters building before construction was done on the first- and then again, and then a third time. I asked Frank that question, and he told me this: "The secret is in middle management, our regional managers who run the daily operations so well. All we do here at the top is make decisions.". Then he gave me a bit of solid gold... He said, "But of course, they have to be the right decisions". He was saying that the job of the captain and navigators of the group were all important- and the wrong decisions could destroy the company, all the jobs, regardless of the middle and working class people.

Like it or not, that is why executives make so much money- their ability is rare and critical. The quality makes the difference between a failing and a thriving company- regardless of the general employees who you think "do all the work". Any of those people who truly put their best into their job soon find themselves moving up rapidly, and earning much more than a living wage, because that is desperately needed in most companies. However the majority look at a job as a burden rather than an opportunity- and thus are being paid about what they are worth. They just fail to recognize the value of the people who have made it possible for them to have a job in the first place. They are disinterested in the long-term success of the company, and do no more than what is necessary to get by. There is always room at the top, but the requirements for those positions are a lot higher than most of those people are willing to bring to the table. Far harder to find people to fill those positions.

Get over the idea that business is a social service agency that exists to provide for your needs or that owes you anything that is not agreed on. Business is a for-profit enterprise, and it hires people who can help it reach that goal. The more valuable your help is- the more they are willing to pay to get it. They are the customers.... of people who are in the business to sell their own personal services.... but are rarely appreciated as valued customers by those sellers, who generally think of themselves as "employees".

 

never said the working class did everything, just that the working class shoudl earn a living wage if the ceo's are making millions a year

if the CEO lays off 1000 people to outsource their jobs to India, they should take a huge pay cut too

I also have no issue with ceo's and top management making more, but 100x+ more is rediculous

 

What if they buy and install machines that allow 10 people to do the work of 1000?

 

The tax cuts for the middle class aren't permenant for one reason...the Dems. Only three dems in the entire House voted for it

The cuts business taxes are for all not just "mega" whatever that means.

 

Single filers (201[23]
Under previous law Under TCJA
Rate Income bracket Rate Income bracket
10% $0–$9,525 10% $0–$9,525
15% $9,525–$38,700 12% $9,525–$38,700
25% $38,700–$93,700 22% $38,700–$82,500
28% $93,700–$195,450 24% $82,500–$157,500
33% $195,450–$424,950 32% $157,500–$200,000
35% $424,950–$426,700 35% $200,000–$500,000
39.6% $426,700 and up 37% $500,000 and up
Married filing jointly (201[23]
Under previous law Under TCJA
Rate Income bracket Rate Income bracket
10% $0–$19,050 10% $0–$19,050
15% $19,050–$77,400 12% $19,050–$77,400
25% $77,400–$156,150 22% $77,400–$165,000
28% $156,150–$237,950 24% $165,000–$315,000
33% $237,950–$424,950 32% $315,000–$400,000
35% $424,950–$480,050 35% $400,000–$600,000
39.6% $480,050 and up 37% $600,000 and up

 

The entire premise of the Laffer Curve and "trickle down" economics, which are based on it, is that when billionaires and huge corporations get tax cuts, they use the money to create jobs and boost the economy.

Well over 90% of the money saved by huge corporations under Trump's tax cuts were used for bonuses to executives and stock buybacks. Neither of which helps the overall economy.

 

I agree that the concept of the Laffer curve makes sense. However, tax cuts paying for themselves, which the GOP uses to advertise them, requires that we are on the right, descending branch of the curve, i.e. the tax rate is above the rate that generates maximum revenue. NOBODY HAS EVER SHOWN ANY EVIDENCE THAT THIS IS THE CASE. In fact, EVERY time the GOP tax cut voodoo economics has been tried, it resulted in massive deficit spending.

I'd be willing to listen to the tax cut proponents, if they could actually provide solid evidence, and not just platitudes, as to which point of the Laffer curve we are actually at.

 

WHY?
As I stated- stop thinking that a business is some kind of social service agency that owes you social justice; something that exists for the purpose of providing for you. IF you can come to understand the nature of business, you could very well discover how to make yourself highly valuable too. Maybe- providing you have the capacity, talent and motivations. Big maybe. The right stuff is very rare.

CEO's are not total owners of these large corporations, they are EMPLOYEES, hired by the board of directors with the approval of shareholders. For example, I as a shareholder in many companies, I regularly vote as to whether a CEO and the board members should be retained or dismissed. Sometimes I'm voting to approve or disapprove compensation plans for those people. If the company is failing to perform, I will likely vote to change the structure of it's management, or their compensation.

WHY would the board be eager to overpay the CEO anymore than overpay you? They are not; they are looking for their money's worth at every level, because survival in business demands that you do so. If you can't compete with foriegn made products for example if you use American labor- then you have a choice. You can continue to use American labor and have the business fail, or you can out-source the labor and survive. The average employee thinks they should not have to be competitive in a world economy- but the business must be, it has no choice. Government goes a long way to protect employees- but not an inch to protect employers, from anybody. Including their own employees.

If the right CEO makes the difference between the company thriving and it barely surviving, he IS worth millions.They don't pay those numbers because they like the guy- they pay them because he will make the difference, make the company a winner and more than earn his compensation. The guy on the production line thinks that if he and the CEO both put in 8 hours a day, their work is only slightly different and pay should be just slightly different. He thinks that out of ignorance, a total lack of understanding of the job and skill differences. He looks at it the way a laymen looks at a cubic zirconia stone and a high-quality diamond- looks about the same, so they should be similar in price.

This year alone, the top four baseball signings garnered $1.3 Billion dollars in salaries. There are three soccer players making over $100 million. We don't hear the public complaining about those people, and without question, a top CEO has skills that are more valuable. Those people too are being paid that because of the rarity of skills, and that it makes the difference in the success- and profitability- of the team they play for. Corporations have to hire the best players too, for the same reasons.

ALL employees from janitors to CEO's hold jobs they asked for, at rates of compensation that they themselves agreed to.
You are free to tell a prospective employer you are worth $10 million, or what ever you think you are worth- and if you can show them how paying you that will result in a net increase in profit for the company, you will probably get the job. You too could be a "grossly overpaid" CEO or ball player- all it takes is having the right stuff. If you've got it, go for it.

 

You don't want to pay your fair share?
Get back when you're paying the highest effective rate you'd gladly impose on others.
Until then, you're freeloading

 

Really!!!

 

But increased revenue. Our government spends too much.

 

1) Revenue would have increased more if the taxes hadn't been cut.
2) As nonpartisanbull has shown in a recent thread, economic growth would be negative without government deficit spending.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to cut government spending, then say goodbye to 3% GDP growth. And that's exactly why the GOP always talks a good game about cutting spending, but never follow through when they are in power.

 

You don't know that. We only know they increased and that they increased at about the same rate as in previous eyars.

 

And you don't know whether the revenue increase was caused by the tax cut or not. Neither do we know whether the +1% GDP growth over the previous years was caused by the tax cuts. Neither do you know whether we are on the ascending or descending leg of the Laffer curve. That's the beauty of the dismal science, without control experiments, proving cause and effect is impossible.

 

I never claimed it did. I know the Laffer curve is a valid concept. Logic says it has to be be. There are several problems with the curve. The exact shape of the curve is unknown and the shape likely changes as economic conditions change. Additionally, just as soon as you change the tax rate, peoples attitude changes which also likely changes the curve.

What should be obvious, however, is that a tax increase will not automatically end up with an increase in revenue. I consider it more a guide for thinking than some absolute.

 

There is very poor correlation between tax rate and the economy. But what there is puts it higher than where we are today.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/30/trump-tax-cut-law-investigation-worker-benefits

Only SIX per cent of that tax cut went to actual workers

 

That a article isn’t about the individual tax cuts

 

if everyone does that we turn to socialism... want to prevent socialism, make sure people have good jobs with good pay

 

fake news, dems did not what the huge corp tax cuts, they wanted a bigger permanent middle class tax cut

will you support undoing the corp tax cuts for a mega middle class tax cut?

 

stop thinking we shoudl be a 3rd world country, people shoudl pay employees what they are worth, if your making millions a year off their work, pay they well

 

you have no idea what I pay in taxes, probably more then you, but as this is the internet neither of us can prove it either way

and stop with the personal attacks, when you can't attack the message, attack the messenger....?

 

Giggles.

 

Be valuable to your employer and it will happen