What's Up! Did Russian Sub Have Fire Fight With US Sub?

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Jeannette, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I disagree with you, Democracies are easily corruptible because it is easy to disband those oversight committees and organisations that are suppose to keep corruption in check. Elections are also easy to manipulate and outcomes changed to keep a corrupt government in power... it happens all the time... these are not communist characteristics.

    TACKLING THE CRISIS OF DEMOCRACY, PROMOTING RULE OF LAW AND FIGHTING CORRUPTION
    https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/tackling_crisis_of_democracy_promoting_rule_of_law_and_fighting_corruption
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  2. Dissily Mordentroge

    Dissily Mordentroge Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why can’t we look past these tedious claims and counter claims for various ideologies and admit it’s human nature that’s the worm in the apple?
     
  3. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because there is nothing natural about what has occurred over the last 30 years. A deliberate push for Democracy.. more democracies than ever before and accompanied with a 200-350% increase in private wealth!

    AND

    A decrease of public wealth from 60-70% to 20-30%

    To me this is the creation of opportunity. Create Democracies - raid state coffers. How does so much money change over from public funds to private funds and people like you just go.... ah human nature. People need to wake up... they are stealing from YOU... from me.... from all of us... our children, our grand children, our great grandchildren.


     
  4. Dissily Mordentroge

    Dissily Mordentroge Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I’m fully aware of the theft of public funds to the benefit of corporate bank accounts. In Australian the contracting out of functions previously handled by the public service AT FAR GREATER COST is another aspect of this. It amuses and angers me when neo-classical/Randian right wingers whinge all taxation is theft. How then do they imagine it’s moral to then turn around and suck billions of public funds into over charging consultancies who keep their contracts by telling right wing governments what they want to hear?
    To suggest these processes occur outside of the tribal manifestations of human nature is naive to say the least. Ideology is so often a camouflage for much less abstract forces at work.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  5. zer0lis

    zer0lis Well-Known Member

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    I have nothing against Russian people, I really like them. IMO they are one of the most hospitable people I have met.
    I was talking specifically about Putin and the Russian gov:
    About him not being reelected, he did change the constitution to be able to run again, so he can change it again. He is what he is, a dictator. I can bet he will stay in power until his death.
    I agreed before that people liked him and stated my personal beliefs about why it is so.

    From what I am aware they are not buying that Ukraine has nothing to do with the tragedy, and I agree.
    I repeat my stance: Ukraine was criminal for directing the airliner over the warzone where multiple jets were downed days before with AA systems, and the Russians for taking it down, by mistake.

    I have no interest in traveling to a warzone lol.
    But, these are not rebels: with armored vehicles, tanks, proper equipment(night vision, advanced mines, and drones), tanks, AA systems, proper organization, and tactics. These are not some people that are rebelling and fighting the state guerilla style, this is 100% unofficial Russian army, an army that has wiped the ass of another army.

    I have taken great interest in this conflict because it might directly influence my life or my properties.

    Hopefully, I did not break any rules by posting slightly graphic content, sorry mods.

    I am amazed by this war how humane it actually is, for a war. This is in stark contrast with videos I have seen from the ME conflicts.

    By the end of the video, the rebels call the dead soldiers relatives to let them know the news, to grief, and to assure them the bodies will be returned for proper funerals. Its sad because they speak the same language yet they kill each other. Fascinating.

    One phone captured from a dead soldier had 6 missed calls from MAMA, and the image in the background, a young man in late 20s hugging a child 5 years old, his child... war is so tragic...
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  6. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    That's a two year old video, here's one from last week....it just shows the normal day-to-day goings on of the Ukrainian military as they indiscriminately lob mortars into rural residential buildings....and school buildings (other recent videos).

    And if you learn enough about this conflict, you will understand that it's NOT the Russian military...it is the residents of the Donbass region fighting for independence. I'm sure they get support from Russia as these people are ethnic Russians but make no mistake they are keeping the pathetic Ukraine military at bay with what little they have.

    Ukraine has brought this entire thing upon themselves. With the western-led coup in 2014 and the resulting hard anti-russian legislation that resulted from it, Ukraine managed to step on it's on dick and alienated areas of the country that are majority Russian. That's why Crimea voted to **** and the 2 areas of Donbass, Donetsk and Luhansk, declared independence and want to be their own respective countries.



     
  7. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Putin will stay as long as the people vote him in - which isn't exactly what you would call a dictator.

    There has never been any proof that the Russians or the Donbass militia had anything to do with taking the airliner down. As the Malaysian president said, it's all politics. They want to blame Russia but they have nothing to show.

    The militia defeated the Ukrainian army because they are fighting for their lives, lands and homes. The Ukrainian soldiers are either conscripts to be used for cannon fodder and were given only 2 weeks training, or nationalists/Nazis who were promised land and homes in the Donbass as a reward. This would account for why they were bombing the poorer homes, and leaving the wealthier ones intact.

    Russia will never give Washington the opportunity to say it did anything illegal to the UN, so none of the military arms used by the militia came from Russia. It is Soviet equipment which was made in Ukraine. Nor did any Russian soldiers enter Ukraine other than as volunteers and during their holiday.

    When General Breedlove said that he was seeing thousands of Russian soldiers and tanks entering, the German Intelligence agents were ready to send him to the loony bin for hallucinating - according to the German Spiegel.

    When the junta began passing fascist laws, and after the Russian protesters in Odessa were burned and hacked by the nationalists, the people panicked - so Donetsk and Lugansk held a referendum asking to federate. Poroshenko instead of speaking to them, began bombing them.

    Strelkov began organizing the inhabitants into a fighting force, and the first city they tried to hold on to was Slaviansk. He made a video begging Russia for help and to send arms, but it was to no avail. The arms were not forthcoming, so they left the city. I don't know when Slaviansk was bombed by white phosphorous, but it was probably when Strelkov's men left. Ihor Kolomoisky was put on a wanted list by Russia for it.

    A few days later, Strelkov defeated a Ukrainian army and had all the arms they needed. I'm sure Russia helped with logistics and strategy, I would have to be an idiot to believe otherwise, but no arms left the Russian territories only medical supplies. When Russian volunteers went to help out during their holiday, the guards said they would enter with their uniforms on, and then go to a depot where the arms were and pick up a rifle. They would then go to a shooting gallery and check them out.

    Three times the militia trapped the Ukrainians in a cauldron. In the first one they managed to escape by knocking down the airliner, and the other two times Poroshenko had to sue for peace and Putin forced the militia to stop their advance and go to Minsk by closing off the border for medical supplies.

    Frankly I consider what Kiev is doing ethnic cleansing:

    Here is Kiev's humane bombing of Lugansk.



    And the humane bombing of Slaviansk.



    And the humane bombing of Mariupol.



    And the humane bombing of Donetsk.

     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  8. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Let me explain this to you,

    Think of it as a heist, the tools to execute this robbery are;

    1. The mainstream media
    2. The leftwing/liberals (the KGB used to refer to them as useful idiots... you'll soon find out why)

    Let's call these power players "Country Eaters". The Country Eaters target a country using the mainstream media to manipulate the masses and sow dissent.

    They then fund rebellion via groups such as Open societies and Pro Democracy groups to fuel unrest.

    Once a government have been overthrown they systematically loot public funds during this chaos...

    Example South Africa, why do you think you never knew Apartheid was there to prevent genocide, Why do you think you never knew how much the Apartheid Government did for Black development. Because these looters.. these country eaters control the media, the narrative and they did not want you to know... if you did you would not be a useful idiot anymore.

    Today almost everything have been stolen from South Africa except the Pension funds/Superannuation. South Africans have the 8th largest savings in the world, I believe it's somewhere around US$4 Trillion, and not long after Ramaphosa's meeting with George Soros he said the ANC is coming for the pensions funds.
    Once they have cleaned this out they will tip the country into civil war to cover their tracks.

    And that my dear Dissily is how you get to 200 - 230% increase in private wealth and decrease in public wealth from 70% to 30%

    My warning to America.

    The Democratic party is in the grip of these powerful country eaters. If they come into power your future will look something like this;

    They will open the borders and you will find yourselves fighting for country and eventually your lives. They will move to disarm you and bring in laws that will see you imprisoned for defending yourselves (this have already happened in South Africa).

    In this chaos you will not notice the looting of your state funds behind the scenes, several decades down the track when they are finished, they simply tip the country into civil war to cover their tracks.
     
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  9. zer0lis

    zer0lis Well-Known Member

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    Alienated how?
    He is a dictator because he changed the constitution to stay in power because he does not allow political opponents because he controls all the media thought his cronies in the circle of power.
    He is a dictator because he ruled Russia for freaking ~30 years and counting.
    No matter if people love him, there are rules in check for democracies. He is a dictator for ****.ting on the dreams of russians to have a true democracy with power constraints.

    Read the FINAL AND OFFICIAL report, not ****** sputnik.

    Their lands are in Russia not in Ukraine.

    The volunteers were and are official members of the Russian Army.

    Thousands of russian soldiers and tanks did enter Ukraine.

    This is not the timeline of events.

    If the video exists, its PR. The arms and support had come. The Ukrainian army did bomb the **** out of them and I agree with the decision.

    How can they defeat an army with no weapons?

    Yes, they did, I dont disagree.

    The russians always did ethnic and cultural cleansing. ALWAYS. That is how their empire ran, and today it clings on their people living abroad, which they brought to create issues like this in the first place(besides other reasons ofc).
    From the polish, baltic states, moldova and! Ukraine. We should not forget their eastern side, which is little account in history books. They killed and replaced and culturally destroyed many many many cultures and people. No people in existence destroyed as many cultures and ethnicities as the Russians. Not even the settlers of America.

    You can imagine, Ukrainians have a lot of hate, it was just brewing for many years. Hate for many good reasons.
    They treated the Russians as they do to others. A taste of their own medicine. All those in Donbas could have either left for Russia or enjoy the show.

    Im not sure if they are russians who came to replace the original population. Most of the russians abroad are just population replacers, living the lives of those who build and fought for the land and suffered immense ordeal in their quest in Siberia or shot and thrown in the mud with no instance of ever happening.

    How do you like this population replacement that Ukraine is doing in return?

    I take the side of Ukrainians in this war. I think its justified. Maybe Im wrong.
    If it ever happens in Kaliningrad, in Moldova, in the lost territories of Poland, and so on, I will show my support too. Maybe I ll have fun giving my money so that population and cultural replacers meet their fate.
    That or leave for Russia where they fking belong in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  10. Dissily Mordentroge

    Dissily Mordentroge Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Does anyone else feel there are a number of posters on this forum who are not simply sympathetic to the Russian world view but are actually paid by the Kremlin to post their ‘un-official’ views in places like this?
     
  11. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    You don't know how they alienated their own people?? You can't be helped, so good luck.

    I suppose you'll take Poland's side when they ask for a large part of western ukraine back?

    Russia doesn't have term limits....just like us before FDR. Their only restriction is two consecutive terms...and Putin has to skip a term before running again. His final term is up this cycle....so it's up to the people's vote, again.
     
  12. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    As opposed to other poster's 'un-official' views who have never been to Ukraine or Russia? Oh yes, let's dismiss people with real life experience and rely on the fake news propaganda......because if they don't agree with you, they must be paid by the Kremlin. :roflol::roflol::roflol:
     
  13. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    When did territorial waters become defined by the Continental Shelf? I'm not saying that's not so but I always thought it was 3 miles or 12 miles or 200 miles depending on how big your Navy was and what was there worth anything.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  14. freddy62

    freddy62 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    200 miles is an economic zone. Several arctic countries including Russia have applied for an extended economic zone in the area of the north pole. Part of the subs role would be to gather evidence in support of that as there are two continents boarder the Arctic and claims seem to be based on where the continental shelfs extend to.
     
  15. JessCurious

    JessCurious Well-Known Member

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    Since the Russians themselves say it was an accident, it shows quite a bit of paranoia to say the there was a fight between Russian and American subs.
     
  16. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    And how would such a battle kill just 7 crew on one side?

    Some people here are big Tom Clancy fans.

    Clancy answer when asked how he knew so much about top secret Russian subs? " I made it up."
     
  17. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    No, Tom Clancy, fire is the leading danger on any ship.
     
  18. zer0lis

    zer0lis Well-Known Member

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    The russian infiltrators started sacking local goverment institutions before the junta enacted any laws.

    Yes, I do.

    They had a term of 4 years. Putin increased it to 6 years.
    They have 2 consecutive teams. Putin increased it to 3 terms.
    It's his constitution for the making, not the peoples, not for them.

    He will change it again to keep or increase power. It's a matter of time.
    He is not balanced by any other power. He has absolute power. He removed the safeguards of democracy.
    It will haunt Russians in the long term immensely. Putin might be great, the next one, the one after his death, will have absolute power, he made sure of it, and might not be that great.
    I couldnt care less, the russian will get what they voted for, but sadly it will affect you or me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  19. zer0lis

    zer0lis Well-Known Member

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    Good for us that the Chinese troll army is active on reddit. I fear they will come to this forum too in a short time.
     
  20. zer0lis

    zer0lis Well-Known Member

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    I have so many examples... I am battling an Austrian corporation for years.
    They are effectively cutting down the last virgin forests of Europe.
    They have changed so many laws through bribes and the amount of power and the shield they have through corrupt politicians is incredible.
    I wish not to declare the country but:
    They changed the law so that they are able to export raw lumber(you couldn't, you had to process the lumber locally)
    They changed how much you can cut down annually.
    They changed the law of reforestation required( for 1 tree cut, you had to plant 3)
    They have the institution for 'forests and waters' all in their pockets.
    They have 'pro cutting down forests' NGOs and media to sway public opinion.
    They lie about how much they cut down.
    They changed laws and areas regarding sound pollution.
    And many more.

    I have spent a lot of time and money against the giant corporation. This is my doing for humanity and for the country I have some roots from.
    I have built an informatic topographic system where you can see satellite images of before and after deforestation to raise public awareness. I wont post links because it would lead to revealing my identity.
    Whole mountains of immense beauty and flora are shaved clean. Many of those forests are virgin ones and the last of Europe. Bears and wolves are now a public concern.
    I will pretty soon sue the corporation and my state government at the Hague court.
     
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  21. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    Dmitry Medvedev increased it to 6 during his administration.....not Putin.

    Putin didn't increase the terms from 2 to 3.......where do you get this **** from?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Russia
     
  22. zer0lis

    zer0lis Well-Known Member

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    I admit I was wrong, I take back my claim and I am sorry.
     

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