I work for the government.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by HTownMarine, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. HTownMarine

    HTownMarine Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I disagree. I worked at a corporate office of a company with 9,000 employees.

    Nobody shunned efficiency there.

    I get paid more money now to do less work than I did in the private sector. By far.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  2. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    Are you the arbitrator of what's efficient and what isn't? Are you knowledgeable enough to know what's avoidable waste and what isn't? More over, even if you spot the waste, do you know the most efficient way to identify the root cause and implement it?

    I see stuff I don't like every day, but me not liking or agreeing with it doesn't make it inefficient or wasteful. It may just appear that way because I don't have the whole picture. Of course there's waste in government, there's waste everywhere including corporate America and small businesses and even in your and my homes. 0% waste is impossible.
     
  3. Gdawg007

    Gdawg007 Well-Known Member

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    Doing more work doesn't equal efficiency. That's your first mistake. There is no set definition of efficiency. It's a target established by a business. Working less for more money isn't necessarily inefficient. It can be a sign of specialization of tasks for example.

    I still work at a corporate office with 20,000 employees. We waste plenty. And we get handsomely rewarded for it.
     
  4. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Reread my post #20. Inefficiency is not limited to government.
     
  5. fencer

    fencer Well-Known Member

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    You presented your opinion of the opinion of your wife about her work experience. I didn't claim she didn't know what she saw and experienced, I questioned whether she is qualified to judge what constitutes hard work, given that her experience is limited to government work. If she has worked in the same environment for 30 years, what is she comparing her experience with? Further, one anecdote doesn't constitute proof of anything. As for the "good quality work of" name your agency, you'll have to define what constitutes "good" to establish that any of them do "good quality work". While police and fire departments may do good work you then have to ask, compared to what? Is it "good quality work" when the police prioritize ticketing speeders over investigating violent crimes or incarcerate people for victimless crimes? The police and fire departments are two questionable purveyors of "good quality work" but Social Security and Medicare are arguably evidence of the worst in government "good quality work", as they're rife with waste and corruption.
     
  6. HTownMarine

    HTownMarine Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course it's not.

    But inefficiency in the private sector is met with job loss and potentially going bankrupt...

    And it surely isn't encouraged.
     
  7. HTownMarine

    HTownMarine Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Never said it did.

    Upgrading to a newer, faster system is denied because that means jobs will be lost, thus a reduction in spending, and as a result, a reduction in the budget; and once the budget is gone, you never get it back.

    Not because there isnt money for it.

    There's a pretty significant difference.

    You should see the amount of paper used... thousands and thousands and thousands of sheets of paper because a computer in one room cant communicate with a computer in the next room over.

    That kind of stuff can be set up in your own house. Not in the government though.

    I know employees who have been there for almost a month without an email address that should have been created before they even started. That sort of thing would get you fired anywhere else.

    Or if it wouldnt, the company wouldnt be around very long.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  8. HTownMarine

    HTownMarine Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In this case, yes, yes, and yes.

    Like I said, you have to see it to believe it. A private sector official would lose their mind if they ever saw what goes on behind closed doors.

    Perhaps having 8 people doing the same job I at one point did by myself in the private sector isnt inefficient in your opinion. I dont know. Literally, 8 people. It takes at least five people to move something from one place to another in the same room.

    But it is in mine.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  9. nra37922

    nra37922 Well-Known Member

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    Just don't stay in front of the door at quitting time...
     
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  10. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    No, I reported her comments and feeling which she repeatedly expressed clearly and with stories over 30 years. Stop denigrating valid statements of others.
     
  11. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You would have to assume something close to perfect competition, where efficiency goes hand in hand with survival. That would be completely alien to corporations. Economic rents mean inefficiencies will run amok. You.get, for example, "shock theory". Thus, a substantial increase in costs may actually have no impact on the firm. It simply reduces slack.
     
  12. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    Actually, lots of businesses run that way to a greater or lessor degree.

    Especially small ones and very large corporations.

    Small ones because they are the reflections of the personalities of their owners. If their owner doesn’t know how to turn on a computer, they’ve still got secretaries and filing cabinets full of paper.

    In large bureaucracies, the power of inertia is very strong. Middle management is often the brakes on progress. And, there is a strong incentive not to innovate if you and two or three other companies dominate the marketplace.

    That happened with the US auto industry. Technological progress in the American car had virtually ground to a halt by 1960. And, new technologies and features that would be added to cars from the late 1970’s through the 90’s, were all driven by government regulation.
     
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  13. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    Actually, they frequently do. And if you don’t think they don’t have an unlimited. budget,go to a public meeting and criticize your volunteer fire company in any way, and watch what happens next.
     
  14. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    Have you taken into account that most people with government experience posting to this thread agrees with the O.P.? Perhaps your wife's experience was the exception rather than the rule.
     
  15. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I find no difference between the public and private sector. There is a more indicative comparison mind you. Private sector waste is massive, but still the game is loaded in favour of big business and not SMEs. That describes the severity of the market failure.
     
  16. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    Corp America has plenty of waste and inefficiency. Anyone who thinks it only happens in govt has their head up their backside
     
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  17. fencer

    fencer Well-Known Member

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    So we agree; Your opinion of her opinion. Not proof of anything.
     
  18. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    I believe, if my memory serves me, that those posters are all right wing government haters who wouldn't dare say anything good about government, would you?
     
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  19. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Are you unable to debate/discuss honestly?
     
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  20. fencer

    fencer Well-Known Member

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    What have I said that is in any way dishonest? You said "I reported her comments and feeling which she repeatedly expressed clearly and with stories over 30 years." You reported, implies that you believe her and relayed her comments and feelings accurately. Your belief constitutes an opinion that you hold regarding your wife's comments and feelings. Nowhere in the statement is there any indication that her comments and feelings are anything more than the opinions of one person with limited experience (one job over 30 years). What I said was not only honest, it was also accurate. Making a comment about someone's "hard work" anything more than an opinion would require documentation of work performed along with metrics to compare the documented work against an objective given standard of work. Lacking these, what you claimed is exactly what I said, your opinion of her opinion.
     
  21. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    "Reporting" something, especially something with which the "reporter" is very, very familiar with, and reporting it verbatim, is not an "opinion" of it. You're trying to minimize it and that's what I am opposing.
     
  22. HTownMarine

    HTownMarine Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As someone who spent 8 years in the private sector prior to my employment here, I can say there there is absolutely NO comparison, whatsoever.

    Case in point... declining more streamlined processes because that would mean laying off employees.

    At my previous employer, they brought in an auto store machine which was basically a giant robot, and then laid off 2/3 of the warehouse employees. Obviously because not paying unnecessary wages is ideal.

    Here, the goal is to not lay off anybody because the more wages that are paid, the bigger the annual budget they receive. Creating a more efficient workforce is not the goal... bloating the budget is.

    It's not comparable in the slightest.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  23. fencer

    fencer Well-Known Member

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    I didn't question the veracity of the reporting but that doesn't change the nature of the information. You reported your opinion (you believe her) of your wife's opinion. If you can't understand that what your wife said and what you reported, no matter how accurate your reporting, is opinion and not fact, I won't waste any more of my time trying to enlighten you.
     
  24. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    The problem there is the existing "rule" (or whatever it should be called) that says if an agency doesn't spend it's budgeted funding this year, we will reduce it next year.

    There has to be a sensible alternative. Maybe fund a justified amount and then provide the manager a modest bonus for spending less than the budgeted, granted funding amount. But the bonus, itself, must not be large enough to be an incentive to manipulate, deceive, and lie and risk being fired for it. If not that, then something else might be devised to end the current system.
     
  25. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    An entire 8 years??? As someone who's spent 29 years in the private sector I can say there is a comparison.
     

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