Question for Holocaust Deniers

https://www.ushmm.org/learn/timeline-of-events/1939-1941/hitler-speech-to-german-parliament

In Hitler's speech to the Reichstag, he threatens to destroy the Jews of Europe if there was another world war.

I guess he was just joking?

 

@Grau takes the statement of Richard Baer that there were "no gas chambers at Auschwitz" to mean that there were no gas chambers at any of the Auschwitz compounds, being Auschwitz 1, 2 and 3, which as we all know is pretty darned silly as the blueprints for Auschwitz 2 show a large gas chamber and millions of Jews were deported to Auschwitz while only 7,500 prisoners remained alive when the Soviets liberated the camp.

Yes, 58,000 prisoners were marched west to other camps but that still leaves more than a million Jews missing.

Poland had more than 3 million Jews before the war and another 1.5 million were sent there during the war. Only around 300,000 remained alive.

so where did the missing 4 million Jews go???

 

Incredible as it may seem the Nazis apparently followed the Protocols of The Elders of Zion as the model for their movement even though Nazi leaders knew if was a forgery.

"In another curious and roundabout way, however, the Nazis gave a propaganda
answer to the question of what their future role would be, and that was
in their use of the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" as a model for the
future organization of the German masses for "world empire." The use of
the Protocols was not restricted to the Nazis; hundreds of thousands of
copies were sold in postwar Germany, and even their open adoption as a
handbook of politics was not new. Nevertheless, this forgery was mainly
used for the purpose of denouncing the Jews and arousing the mob to the
dangers of Jewish domination. In terms of mere propaganda, the discovery
of the Nazis was that the masses were not so frightened by Jewish world
rule as they were interested in how it could be done, that the popularity of
the Protocols was based on admiration and eagerness to learn rather than
on hatred, and that it would be wise to stay as close as possible to certain
of their outstanding formulas, as in the case of the famous slogan: "Right
is what is good for the German people," which was copied from the Proto-
cols* "Everything that benefits the Jewish people is morally right and
sacred. * M3

The Protocols are a very curious and noteworthy document in many respects.
Apart from their cheap Machiavellianism, their essential political
characteristic is that in their crackpot manner they touch on every important
political issue of the time. They are antinational in principle and picture the
nation-state as a colossus with feet of clay."
THE ORIGINS OF TOTALITARIANISM, By Hannah Arendt, Meridian Books,New York, 1958.
https://archive.org/stream/TheOriginsOfTotalitarianism/The-Origins-of-Totalitarianism_djvu.txt

"Crackpots" leading crackpots right down the black hole of genocide, nihilism and national suicide.
Nazism really was the damndest crazy thing. It is amazing that there are still a few true believers left in spite of the very unambiguous judgement of history.

 

as far as political ideologies go, Nazism sure was the most insane yet.

 

Nah, there are worst. At least the german under nazism still enjoyed luxury still late in the war. Socialist like Stalin and Mao confiscated all, including food, to their citizens.

 

And the Germans had a reputation as a generally clear thinking people.
Certainly a lesson there for the rest of us.

"The delusion of an already
existing Jewish world domination formed the basis for the illusion of future
German world domination. This was what Himmler had in mind when he
stated that "we owe the art of government to the Jews," namely, to the
Protocols which "the Fuhrer [had] learned by heart." 50 Thus the Protocols
presented world conquest as a practical possibility, implied that the whole
affair was only a question of inspired or shrewd know-how, and that no-
body stood in the way of a German victory over the entire world but a
patently small people, the Jews, who ruled it without possessing instruments
of violence — an easy opponent, therefore, once their secret was discovered
and their method emulated on a larger scale. "
THE ORIGINS OF TOTALITARIANISM, By Hannah Arendt, Meridian Books,New York, 1958.
https://archive.org/stream/TheOriginsOfTotalitarianism/The-Origins-of-Totalitarianism_djvu.txt.

I bet very few if any Neo-Nazis know how twisted and crazy their martyred heroes really were.
They all need to read Arendt and buy a vowel or two.

 

Soviets, as evil as they were, didn't get into insane ideas regarding racial purity and the occult.

 

Stalin and Mao were not suicidal monsters. They were rational monsters who used terror to hold power. The Nazis were nuts. Hitler even planned to send millions of Germans to the camps after a victory in WW II.

"Hitler contemplated during the war the introduction of a National Health Bill:
"After national X-ray examination, the Fuehrer is to be given a list of sick persons,
particularly those with lung and heart diseases. On the basis of the new Reich Health
Law . . these families will no longer be able to remain among the public and can
no longer be allowed to produce children. What will happen to these families will be
the subject of further orders of the Fuehrer." It does not need much imagination to
guess what these further orders would have been. The number of people no longer
allowed "to remain among the public" would have formed a considerable portion of
the German population (Nazi Conspiracy, VI, 175)."
THE ORIGINS OF TOTALITARIANISM, By Hannah Arendt, Meridian Books, Cleveland, New York, 1958.
https://archive.org/stream/TheOriginsOfTotalitarianism/The-Origins-of-Totalitarianism_djvu.txt

 

They did manage to murder more people, but they lasted a lot longer than the Nazi Germany.

 

No, unless you count the millions of ukrainian they starved...

 

many Russians also starved during the 1930s crop failures.

as did Poles, Lithuanians, Jews, Belorussians, Khazaks, anyone who lived in rural areas.

but thats not the topic of the thread so lets not go there here

 

In any case, just to reassure you, I'm not defending those nazi bastard. Never will.

 

Thanks for taking the time to join in.
Please don't mistake my rejection of some of the implausible claims made in standard holocaust dogma as a defense of abhorrent Nazism.
I am attempting to discuss this emotionally charged topic as dispassionately & as objectively as if it were about Alexander the Great.
However, my assertion that there were no homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz, Birkenau or Monowitz remains the same based on the same facts I have already related in this & related threads

To my knowledge, not a single air tight homicidal gas chamber with tightly sealed, steel doors, extensive duct work including heating elements, powerful exhaust fans etc required to gas hundreds of people at a time exists or existed at any of those facilities.

If the extermination of millions of people was the intention of the Nazis, there are much easier and more efficient ways to exterminate large numbers of people than to round them up, devote the resources needed to transport them great distances, build housing, hospitals and other facilities for them only to exterminate them.
Germany, as you know, was pitifully deficient in those same resources as well as manpower especially during the short time period during which 700,000 - 900,000 are claimed to have been executed.

Most people don't realize the degree to which typhus was rampant in all the camps & frequently confuse the defumigation chambers used to delouse clothing and mattresses with mythical homicidal gas chambers, however, to my knowledge, not a single order, maintenance form, or blueprint for a homicidal gas chamber exists nor has anyone here posted such a document.

Rather than re-write the numerous other reasons for my assertions, I will cite only one of the more outstanding ones.
One of the most noteworthy symptoms of both cyanide and carbon monoxide poisoning is cherry red skin yet not a single "homicidal gas chamber eyewitness" makes mention of this very obvious & shocking feature.

Even if only half of the alleged gas chamber casualties exhibited this remarkable feature, someone would have mentioned it in the innumerable tomes of holocaust lore.


(1) "Johns Hopkins"
http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/our-work/publications/cyanide-fact-sheet
EXCERPT:
Signs and Symptoms:
Other: acute lung injury, nausea and vomiting, cherry-red skin color.
CONTINUED


(2) "Cyanide Toxicity"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK507796/

EXCERPT "Patients with cyanide poisoning will not be cyanotic but will have a cherry red color due to excess oxygen in the bloodstream."CONTINUED

 

Here's some info on what a body would look like if someone were killed with cyanide. There's a picture of a body with red skin on the right.

http://nazigassings.com/
(excerpt)
----------------------------------------
If any holocaust gassing claims were true, vast numbers of bright, cherry RED corpses would have always been present among the victims. Not necessarily all of the corpses would have been red--but certainly large numbers, probably the vast majority, would have been intensely red in appearance from cyanide or carbon monoxide and would have been remembered that way long after the war. That intense red coloring would have appeared within minutes of death, in the hypostasis and even in the pre-hypostasis condition, and would have remained present for several days at least. This is, however, contrary to nearly all of the statements from self-described “eyewitnesses” to those alleged gassings or of the supposedly huge piles of stark naked corpses. A-L-L of those "eyewitnesses" LIED: — they claimed the corpses were either “blue,” or “bluish” or “unremarkable!”

 

Yes, we agree that it is pretty insane and mind boggling that the Nazis and their Fascist allies would waste one ounce of energy and resources on persecuting, deporting, ghettoizing, and exterminating millions of people that could have instead been a military and intellectual resource for winning the war. But that's just how insane and irrational anti-Semitism is.

As far as a blueprint for a gas chamber, it's right there on the blueprints for Auschwitz 2. But you of course deny it.

That's the essence of Holocaust denial....to deny all testimony, all evidence, all documents, all speeches that confirm the history of the Holocaust.

But my friend, when your only argument is to simply deny the legitimacy of everything that verifies that the Shoah did happen, kinda makes your argument look a little weak.

It's highly unlikely that the testimony of the Sonderkommanos, the workers at Topf & Sons, the documentation from Topf & Sons, the interview of Eichmann, the speeches of Himmler and Hitler are all false.

At some point you're just going to have to embrace the fact that the evidence supporting the Holocaust is overwhelming.

Nevermind the fact that Poland had 4.6 million Jews on its territory during Ww2 and yet only 300,000 remained after the war.

You still haven't even attempted to address that major numeric problem.

 

You're confusing blueprints for defumigation chambers with non existent homicidal gas chambers.


I'm still waiting for you to answer the 3 simple questions I posed long, long ago:


1. Where are homicidal gas chambers and the auxiliary rooms with extensive fans & ventilation systems that were needed to heat the Zyklon B to a gaseous state and then introduce the gas into the gas chamber and, later, exhaust the deadly gas from the room so that the bodies could be cleared?

2. Do you believe that the morgue at Auschwitz that is falsely labeled as a "gas chamber" is genuine or simply a fake used to deceive gullible & poorly informed individuals?

3. Why are there no reports of seeing cherry red skin by any of the survivors even if only half of the victims exhibited that common & remarkable symptom?(1), (2)




(1) "Johns Hopkins"
http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/our-work/publications/cyanide-fact-sheet
EXCERPT:
Signs and Symptoms

Other: acute lung injury, nausea and vomiting, cherry-red skin color." CONTINUED


(2) "Cyanide Toxicity"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK507796/

EXCERPT "Patients with cyanide poisoning will not be cyanotic but will have a cherry red color due to excess oxygen in the bloodstream."CONTINUED

 

What's your source for that? I'm not saying it's not true but it's just second-hand information which means we have to trust somebody who may have lied. Anyone can find a document somewhere that supports any version of an issue. This one looks credible to me but it is only second-hand info.

http://vho.org/GB/Books/thottc/5.html
(excerpt)
-------------------------------------
The 1939 study of Arthur Ruppin, Professor of Jewish Sociology at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, gave 16,717,000 Jews in the world in 1938. 17 Because Ruppin (who passed away in 1943) was considered the fore-most expert on such matters, on account of many writings on the subject over a period of many years, the estimates of other pre-war sources tend to agree with him. Thus the American Jewish Committee estimate for 1933, which ap-
pears in the 1940 World Almanac, was 15,315,359. The World Almanac figure for 1945 is 15,192,089 (page 367); no source is given but the figure is appar-ently based on some sort of religious census. The 1946 World Almanac re-vised this to 15,753,638, a figure which was retained in the editions of 1947 (page 74, 1948 (page 572) and 1949 (page 289). The 1948 World Almanac (page 249) also gives the American Jewish Committee estimate for 1938 (sic
), 15,688,259 while the 1949 World Almanac (page 204) reports new figures from the American Jewish Committee which were developed in 1947-1948: 16,643,120 in 1939 and 11,266,600 in 1947.
----------------------------------------


Documents aren't proof of anything as the persons who wrote them might have been lying. The only thing that should be taken seriously is the physical evidence.

http://germarrudolf.com/germars-vie...t-the-gas-chambers-of-auschwitz-and-birkenau/
(excerpt)
--------------------------------------
No less false are the times alleged for the ventilation of mortuaries 1 (the ‘gas chambers’) of crematoria II and III, since the witnesses proceeded on the mistaken assumption that a single air exchange would remove all the poison gas. The delay in the reduction of the remaining concentration of hydrogen cyanide means that in a realistic scenario the required ventilation time would exceed that recounted by the witnesses by a factor of 10 or more (diminished circulation due to the bodies, ‘short-circuit’ of air, aftergeneration of gas from the Zyklon B). As well, the problem of continued aftergeneration of gas from the remaining Zyklon B, which would have made it impossible to work within the chambers without protective clothing in anything less than 2 hours even with ongoing ventilation, also prove that the witnesses have not told the truth.
The ‘gas chambers’ of crematoria IV and V as well as of Bunkers I and II would have had to be designed and built as instruments of mass murder if the mass gassings alleged to have been planned and in progress during the construction of these facilities had really taken place; yet even Pressac admits that the gassing procedures attested to were illogical and ridiculous, and highly dangerous to the Sonderkommandos in particular. In the face of all this, anyone approaching this issue from a scientific and technical perspective cannot but conclude that the alleged murderers went to great lengths to devise the most expensive, complicated, dangerous and problematic way to kill people en masse. For example, the coal-refining BUNA works of I.G. Farbenwerke AG, only a few miles away, could easily have provided a cheap supply of coal gas high in carbon monoxide for poisoning, or bottled nitrogen for asphyxiation.[141] But in Auschwitz, of all places, it had to be the expensive, scarce and awkward-to-use Zyklon B that was used, even though it was badly needed everywhere else for pest control. Yet in other alleged extermination camps far distant from the BUNA plant, carbon monoxide is said to have been used to kill people, and to have been generated for this purpose with Diesel engines from captured Russian tanks, whose exhaust fumes, however, contain only non-lethal quantities of carbon monoxide when operated in neutral gear (as they would have to have been).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://nazigassings.com/
(excerpt)
---------------------------------
There are NO photographs of corpses of Nazi gassing victims. The cheap, dirty trick which really makes the hoax succeed is the wilful misuse of pictures of countless sick and dead in the camps at the end of the war—none of which are of people killed in gas chambers—but which are repeatedly shown to give the false impression that millions of people must have been murdered in gas chambers. There really is no direct connection--but for the more than gullible masses, the connection is “undeniable.” The people who show those pictures are all in on the trick. They all know perfectly well that the pictures are of people who died of other causes such as typhus—but they use the pictures anyway for their powerful psychological effect to precondition their audience for the gassing and mass extermination pitch which inevitably follows. The pictures are irrelevant except for their enormous shock value. Pictures of countless healthy prisoners in the same camps are generally not shown for reasons that are all too obvious. This delibeerate misuse of photographs is rather widespread and illustrates the collective eagerness of many people (the “hoaxers“ or co-conspirators in the hoax), especially in the American media, to throw whatever they can find against the Nazis, SS and Germans generally just like spiteful children. They want to believe in the hoax.
----------------------------------

 

The blueprints are legit, and you should cease attacking people and calling people names simply because they disagree with you. It's a poor debate tactic.

 

Now @Grau, if Poland had at least 3 million Jews and more than 1.5 million were sent there during the war, but only 300,000 remained after the war, where did the missing Jews go?

Mars? The Moon? Atlantis?

 

Is there a link to them someplace? How do we know they weren't made after the war and therefore bogus?

At the 4:30 time mark of this video the blueprints are discussed.
https://archive.org/details/AuschwitzWhyTheGasChambersAreAMythHD

We have contradicting info. You seem to simply choosing the info that supports what you want to be true and ignoring he rest.


edit two minutes later
-----------------------------------

Hey Ronstar

What do you think of the quote from the almanac in post #95?

 

Good Grief....

What are you talking about... I have attacked no one & called no one names.

 

Where are you getting these fantastic numbers?

Please provide sources as I do.

I suspect that the missing Jews were among the 14 million people mentioned in the article below.
You don't seem to be aware that displacement, persecution, torture & execution was as pervasive after WW 2 as it was during.



"Expulsion of Ethnic Germans after World War II (1945)"
https://www.toptenz.net/top-10-most-horrific-genocides-in-history.php

EXCERPT "However, the forced displacement of some 14 million ethnic Germans and allied Slavs from Soviet Russia, from occupied areas of Eastern and Central Europe in the aftermath of World War II, has to go down as something pretty close to genocide, especially when one considers that between half a million and two million of them didn’t survive the journey.

While most of these deaths were from famine and disease, many German civilians were also executed outright, or sent to internment and labor camps by the Soviets—especially those known to or suspected to have had Nazi associations. What makes it genocidal in nature was that only Germans were targeted, and that the brutal policy of forced relocation was ordered by Stalin himself, specifically as a means of retribution."CONTINUED

 

Poland had a pre-war Jewish population of at least 3 million. This is well documented.

At least 400,000 Jews were deported to Poland from Hungary.

More than 1 million Jews from Western and Central Europe were deported to Poland as part of Operation Rheinhard.

These facts are beyond dispute.

Now, after WW2 only around 300,000 Jews remained in Poland. Where did the other 4 million Jews go?