AR15: A weapon of War?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by TOG 6, Jul 12, 2019.

?

Is the AR15 a "military weapon" and/or "weapon of war"?

  1. Yes, the AR15 is a "military weapons" and/or "a weapon of war"

    32.8%
  2. No, the AR15 is NOT a "military weapons" and/or "a weapon of war"

    67.2%
  3. I dont understand the issue and/or the question

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Other - please explain

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A more logical and defensible position than claiming that the ar15 is not a military weapon
    Go for it
     
  2. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here's what I remember back when I was barely a teenager.

    In the early 60's you would see Armalite AR-15's on the shelf at some gun stores, By 64 there were Colt AR-15's on the shelf but American hunters back in the day were old schooled and looked at this funny looking rifle made from stamped steel and aluminum and had a plastic stock and pistol grip. It looked like something Mattel Toys would make.

    Back in the day Americans wanted high quality, cold hard forged steel that was milled to perfection and had a hard wood stock preferably of walnut.

    They rejected the AR-15 and stuck to rifles with Mauser actions of forged milled steel.
     
  3. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Which is still the case, as the AR-15 is still not a military weapon, no matter what critics claim to the contrary.
     
  4. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    I’ve introduced no “ nations”.
     
  5. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Tell me where I said the round was or was not underpowered.
    I claim it was effective for its intended use. You Not knowing much about ballistics, I would expect you to mistakenly comment on the power of a cartridge without considering the range or circumstances if it’s intended use.
     
  6. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    In post one hundred and four.

    Compared to other cartridges that are presently on the market, specifically those designed and intended to be its replacement, it is indeed quite weak, and does amount to being underpowered.
     
  7. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Guess you’ve lost the ability to quote.
     
  8. Gary/Dubya

    Gary/Dubya Well-Known Member

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    I bought one in late '74 or early '75. I also bought military rounds by the 500 for around $75, some were tracers.

    It was a good weapon for target shooting that weapon type and it could be used for home self defense.

    One of the problems I noticed after I shot a tree about a foot and a half in diameter was those rounds were too dangerous for home protection in populated areas. The round not only went completely thru that tree, but it went completely thru another tree of equal size. The walls of a house aren't going to stop that ammo, you could shoot thru your wall and easily pass right thru your neighbor's house to keep on going.
     
  9. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    You were never in the military were you. The goal is killing and maiming people, not bear.
    The weaker .223 and more powerful nato round carry as much energy at several hundred yards as a 9mm or even .357 load does at the muzzle of a handgun , and with much less recoil, and easier follow up. Of course, you novice are more impressed with a 30.06 or .308 because you think more dead is better then dead.
    Go serve a tour in an army hospital treating war wounds from smaller caliber “ underpowered” assault weapons, then come back with your uninformed ideas.
     
  10. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    If all you care about is powerful firearms, just promote muzzle loaders.
     
  11. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Agree. Not only that, but the AR15 in .223 is not meant to compete with a hunting rifle taking down big game at several hundred yards. . It’s meant to give the user a tactical advantage of light weight, compact size, accuracy of follow up shots and firepower over an adversary shooting back at you. That means, military use......
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  12. Gary/Dubya

    Gary/Dubya Well-Known Member

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    AR15s aren't good for any kind of hunting and certainly not big game. I can see allowing permits to shoot them for target practice, but that's about it. You'd be better off protecting a house with a shotgun or dog. At least then you aren't going to shoot a neighbor by mistake. I was careful how I used my AR15, because I knew those rounds would go for miles.

    My assessment was based on using copper coated military rounds, I never had a reason to use anything else.
     
  13. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    I will confess, they make good “ pig” hunting firearms. .

    Because
    *Pigs and humans have similar gastrointestinal systems, body composition, and nutritional requirements. Dr. Eric Berg is a professor of animal sciences at North Dakota State University, and is using pigs to study American diets*
     
  14. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    And the parent case of the cartridge was originally designed and intended for use with small game, such as foxes and coyotes.

    It is intellectually dishonest to compare the muzzle energy of handguns against rifles.

    Off topic and irrelevant.
     
  15. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    The above assessment is significantly outdated in light of modern developments in both firearms and ammunition.
     
  16. Gary/Dubya

    Gary/Dubya Well-Known Member

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    Explain how the AR15 and it's ammo have changed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  17. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    It hasn't been used by the military for a long time. The current infantry rifle is the M4 which is a redesign of the AR 15. The ammo is the same.
     
  18. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    The system of the AR-15 has been refined since its inception to work out the early issues the system was plagued by. Various manufacturers are switching out the direct impingement gas tube for a piston-drive system similar to the AK-47 and other platforms. Barrel rifling twist rates have been standardized and optimized for a variety of projectile weights. The fifty-five grain projectile is no longer standard, as projectile weights up to seventy five grains and higher are now available on the open market, with a large selection of different projectile types to ensure adequate penetration and reliable expansion/fragmentation to reduce the rate and risk of overpenetration of a target.

    Unlike the shotgun, a carbine such as the AR-15 is capable of near pinpoint accuracy with a single projectile, rather than eight to thirty projectiles loaded in a single shell of shotgun ammunition, all of which will need to be accounted for when discharged.
     
  19. Gary/Dubya

    Gary/Dubya Well-Known Member

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    That has nothing to do with an AR15, which is what this thread is about.
     
  20. Gary/Dubya

    Gary/Dubya Well-Known Member

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    The refinements since it's inception were done early in the history of the M16 and AR15, the weapons have been in service for 55 years. The only characteristic that lends itself to target shooting is familiarity. No matter how they are equipped neither weapon are the best for target shooting by a long shot.

    I also don't see their value in hunting pigs.
     
  21. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    A few days ago I took a couple of friends to the range to shoot. One of them is a "Never Trump"er and her reaction to AR's was the typical "No one needs a weapon of WAR!" until I showed her an AR round in .223 and placed it next to a .22 round. She said, and I quote, "WTF, that looks like a damn pencil!" I said do you know why? Because it's a varmint round made to kill squirrels and rabbits. I then showed her where it said Varmint right on the box of ammo. I said "Some weapon of war huh?" All she could do is stare at it and blink, but I could tell she was questioning all the things she was told about AR's.

    The most success I've had in getting the ignorant to think about what they are saying is to give them a little education about the subject.

    "Armed women don't get raped" had a profound effect on her. She ended up buying a .357 revolver and a box of .38 Special Hornady Critical Defense ammo.

    It was a great day.
     
    BuckyBadger and TOG 6 like this.
  22. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    Wiggle wiggle wiggle , yeah.
     
  23. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Those who take part in the Camp Perry marksmanship competitions in the united states would beg to differ. The AR-15 is every bit a target rifle as can be expected. If not in its default stock form, then it is easily customized to become such. It is not that difficult of a concept.

    Feral hogs are a nuisance species that cause unacceptable levels of destruction to property and crops, as well as spread disease. They are also prolific breeders, and travel in packs that must be killed off in large numbers to stop the damage they cause.
     
  24. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    The AR15 overwhelmingly dominates the NRA Service rifle class for Highpower, Palma and Long Range, and AR15-based rifles dominate the match gun/any rifle class.

    Given you have no familiarity with these competition, or the scores generated in them, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
     
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  25. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There's one kind of matches you'll never see an AR at...on the 1,000 yard line.


    F-Class Nationals

    F-Class is a long range high-power rifle competition. Competitors fire at distances of 300 to 1200 yards.

    FYI:
    500 yards is not long range but midrange.


    [​IMG]
    http://arizona-rifleshooting.com/LR-Fclass-Rifle.html


     

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