Federal Regulations Have Made You 75% Poorer

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by ProgressivePower, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. ProgressivePower

    ProgressivePower Active Member

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    Article from 2013, Reason. (https://reason.com/2013/06/21/federal-regulations-have-made-you-75-per/)

     
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  2. ProgressivePower

    ProgressivePower Active Member

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  3. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Now you and the study just have to prove that Federal regulations have not saved lives or prevented greater loss from industrial accidents.

    Had PGE followed government regulations, they would not have had to pay out over $300 million in damages to injured American citizens.
    Shall we list the hundreds of billions in law suits against American corporations that have been paid out for personal damages because companies injured people rather than follow safety regulations? Your study pretends that industry lives in a bubble of perfect behavior. History says differently.

    Union Carbide went broke because it thought that by moving to a country with fewer regulations, it would save money. Instead, they killed a bunch of people and went belly up.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
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  4. ProgressivePower

    ProgressivePower Active Member

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    Of course some regulations have saved lives, and those that do I would not get rid of, but to say that the bulk of these regulations do more good than harm, is laughable. Regulation kills the economy, and that is a FACT.
     
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  5. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Shocking, regulations cost money. Also shocking, an economy growing in size and complexity since 1949 needs additional regulations, and those cost money too.

    Good for those authors, however, that there can never be any control experiments in the dismal science. Therefore, the number of $277,000 average income in the absence of new regulations can not be disproven.

    It is not shocking, however, that the snake oil salesmen will use the promise of riches for everyone as a talking point to advocate for de-regulation, which worked so well in the run-up to the great recession.

    Me, I'd rather pay for regulation than to be dead by lead poisoning, for example. Note that lead paint was prohibited in 1977, long after their arbitrary 1949 cutoff. So, with 1949 regulations, we'd all still sit in houses with tons of lead paint everywhere, not even talking about lead in the gasoline, which we'd all breathe in. And that's just one example.
     
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  6. Pred

    Pred Well-Known Member

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    There's regulation and then there's OVER regulation. I don't think anyone has a problem with the govt checking in that a company isn't spreading poisoned frozen chicken breasts all over the country. Or making sure when you pump a gallon of gas you're actually pumping a gallon of gas. That's GOOD regulation.

    Then you have bad regulation like pushing underperforming kids through elementary school, because when you look at the demographics, certain pet Minorities vastly underperform. So screw over EVERYONE so the Dept of Education can't be accused of racism, mostly because the families of these same minorities are non-existent, which is the main reason they underperform in the first place. But they can't come out and SAY THAT. They have to ignore the REAL problem.
     
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  7. ProgressivePower

    ProgressivePower Active Member

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    The economists did to an extent use the effectiveness and benefits of some regulations in their study to quantify their results. There are low end figures and high end figures, both of which are truly incredible. Sure many of these regulations are good, and I don't deny so, but to argue that all of them benefit, and that we don't need to cut down is wrong. It is true that the freer an economy is the better the economy works for the majority of people in that particular country. This is why de-regulation is mostly a tool for good, as it encourages more competition, less barriers to entry, more incentive to innovate and create, all of which is good for everyone. It creates jobs and more employment, gives consumers more and better options, and encourages competition.

    BTW, deregulation of the financial sector does not cause crises. The Federal Reserve's cheap money policies do. There is no evidence that the repeal of 'glass steagall' caused the financial crisis in '08.
     
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  8. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Regulations are always superfluous ... until it is you or your family that gets injured. People think that coal plants are too closely regulated ... but none of those people have one in their back yard.
     
  9. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Tell you what - I'll agree that these regulations are superfluous if you are willing to undergo the worst case scenario of that industry regulation being eliminated. If there is a regulation that was put in place to because people were getting e-coli, then you have to agree to get e-coli. If there is a regulation eliminated that helps prevent pollution that causes 20,000 children a year from dying of respiratory disease complications, then you have to kill your child ... agree?
     
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  10. ProgressivePower

    ProgressivePower Active Member

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    Safety regulations are good, and certainly in particular industries that are dangerous I would keep them, in many instances enhance them. So no, I would not get rid of pollution regulations, coal, e-coli, etc. But the left acts like these are all the regulations. Other regulations, in fact most are just compliance, etc.. They kill the incentive to create and produce, reduce employment, reduce consumer choice and competition. This is the foundation of the economy. If everything was regulated like crazy, the US wouldn't be the global economic engine it is today. Free-markets have always shown to guarantee prosperity.
     
  11. ProgressivePower

    ProgressivePower Active Member

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    75% poorer. 75%. Think about how much better the poor would be in this country, if we had not implemented so many regulations.
     
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  12. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  13. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    The vast majority of regulations are a reaction to law suits brought by damaged citizens. Safety regulations are born when someone gets hurt. Financial regulations are born from people being swindled. Again, if you are willing to undergo the damages that were the basis for these regulations, then I will agree with you.
     
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  14. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, the same argument is made for trickle dow economics and tax cuts..... the reality has not matched the sales pitch.
     
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  15. ProgressivePower

    ProgressivePower Active Member

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    We need free market banking. What we have now is a system of socialized risk, and the socialization of losses. We need to end the Fed, and encourage free banking, which would make recessions much less frequent and much milder. Before the Fed, banks didn't use option clauses and there were many regulations prohibiting branching to spread liquidity. If option clauses were enabled, liquidity would be spread from bank to bank, making bank runs a very low possibility. Full reserve bankers also argue that bank runs would not exist in full reserve banking, but that is for another FracRB, Full Reserve banking debate. The Fed is what has caused the worst financial crisis in our history.

    The dollar has lost 95% of its value since the Federal Reserve. The Fed is a major reason that is killing prosperity in our country.
     
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  16. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think that is a great idea...., lets pay for all the damages of non existent regulations with a tax surcharge levied on the rich.... i am sure they will agree since the costs will be trivial.
     
  17. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    CRIMINAL ENFORCEMENT COLLAPSE AT EPA
    Lowest Number of New Anti-Pollution Cases in 30 Years
    https://www.peer.org/news/press-releases/criminal-enforcement-collapse-at-epa.html

    83 Environmental Rules Being Rolled Back Under Trump
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks.html
    All told, the Trump administration’s environmental rollbacks could significantly increase greenhouse gas emissions and lead to thousands of extra deaths from poor air quality every year, according to a recent report prepared by New York University Law School's State Energy and Environmental Impact Center.

    Environment Remains Under Siege Two Years Into the Trump Administration
    https://therevelator.org/environment-deregulation-trump-two-years/
     
  18. ProgressivePower

    ProgressivePower Active Member

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    The trickle down economics phrase is a talking point phrase. Truth of the matter is, when an economy is left more in private hands, there is more production, more income generated, and more employment. FACT. Taxation discourages production. They are an added inhibit of the risk taking of business, and cut down on the potentiality of profit gains, with this risk. People think the rich just hoard their wealth. That is false. The rich put money into savings, which encourages investment, capital accumulation, production, and grows more wealth. It also enhances future consumption.
     
  19. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How do you explain the 30s depression

    Lets see.... when the model t was introduced it cost the equivalent of of 20k
    I can buy a toyota corolla for 20k
    I prefer the toyota
    Fact of is that the average person lives much better today
     
  20. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not necessarily
    In fact, much of the advantage of our economy has been a very large common market created by regulation. This is exactly the reason for the creation of the EU

    YOU HAVE drunk the cool aide.
     
  21. ProgressivePower

    ProgressivePower Active Member

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    Where you getting this? Most regulations are compliance. They are stopping new businesses from being created, and as a result new jobs from being created. What makes you think private regulatory agencies won't be able to regulate finance? In a free market, the reputation of banks is created based on how they perform and how reliable they are for the consumer. Banks that don't do so, will go down. Consumers will not go to banks that don't internally regulate themselves. Trust will be essential in a free market absent financial regulation, and the use of private regulatory agencies will be part of aiding this trust in showing the consumer they are regulated. Not arguing against some broad brush govt regulation of fraudulent finance, but again most regulation stops competition.
     
  22. ProgressivePower

    ProgressivePower Active Member

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    It's not drinking the cool aide, it's drinking the fact aid. Trust me, read Economics in One lesson by Hazlitt, and it will change your mind.
     
  23. ProgressivePower

    ProgressivePower Active Member

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    The Depression was created by the Fed, changing rules on time and demand deposits, artificially inflating the supply of money. This inflation lead to a bust.

    People live better today, but they could be living much much better.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  24. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Banks that "go down" take their investors and depositors with them. Like I said, as long as you are willing to forfeit all your money, then you can get rid of all banking regulations.
     
  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Your're just trying to have it both ways. Your OP makes sweeping cliams against all regulation. Now, you want to say that some regulaion is OK!!

    This just demonstrates that making sweeping claims is a cheap way to dodge any actual issue.
     

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