Man-Made Global Warming Theory Takes Major Hit

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Josephwalker, Jul 12, 2019.

  1. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Global warming is taking place at a lesser rate rate than half of the previous 9 Holocene warming periods.
     
  2. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, correlation does not prove causation
    But i think even the most strident skeptics agree that the atmosphere had an impact..., and that the exact composition of the atmosphere has an impact. On one extreme... the moon has no atmosphere and is cold.... venus has an atmosphere filled with lots of ghg.... and is hot...., mars has essentially no atmosphere and is cold ....

    Having an atmosphere impacts the climate
    And the amount of atmosphere impacts the climate
    And the exact content of the atmosphere impacts the climate
    Absolutely zero percent of scientists disagree with the above.... do you?
     
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  3. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That fact does not speak to whether or not we are now impacting the climate.

    Maybe you want to argue that the current changes should not concern us because these changes are not unusual in the context of earths 4 billion year history..... which is true only if you ignore the fact that for most of earths history, the climate has not been very well suited to humans..... as long as we do not care about that fact, then everything is just fine

    Or maybe you want to argue that current changes are consistent with past changes so therefore there is no reason to conclude we are impacting the environment.... is this your point?
     
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  4. Nathan-D

    Nathan-D Member

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    Of course the atmosphere and human CO2-emissions will impact the climate, but it's a question of magnitude.
    The reason as to why Venus is so hot I think is still a matter of debate. Also, Mars has a thin atmosphere but its CO2 density is 27 times greater than on Earth.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  5. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Is your point that.... even if we are causing climate change... never the less current change is within the the range of past climate variation and so therefore we need not worry?

    Or is your point that this proves that current climate change is most likely normal variation and so we are not significantly impacting the change
     
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  6. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually, you will not be able to find ANY scientist who disputes the fact that planetary atmosphere modulates climate

    Temperatures on the moon are very hot in the daytime, about 100 degrees C. At night, the lunar surface gets very cold, as cold as minus 173 degrees C. This wide variation is because Earth's moon has no atmosphere to hold in heat at night or prevent the surface from getting so hot during the day.

    The above is ENTIRELY uncontroversial. If you disagree.... you have entered the realm of flat earth science

     
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  7. Nathan-D

    Nathan-D Member

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    I am not saying that the past climate changes preclude anthropogenic global warming today. What I am saying is that it is a demonstration of global warming on a larger scale. Those large temperature changes imply that the natural factors that caused them could also be operative today and must be eliminated from the present situation before it can be claimed that modern global warming is anthropogenic.
     
  8. Nathan-D

    Nathan-D Member

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    Where did I say that the atmosphere could not change the climate? I simply stated that the very high temperatures on Venus could be due to something else besides atmospheric greenhouse gases (principally CO2) and that the warming on Earth from atmospheric CO2 will undoubtedly have an impact, but is a question of magnitude. How much warming and could other factors besides CO2 explain the warming.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  9. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good
    Yes
    Yes.... could be
    So, then would you That current climate change MAY BE natural, it may be anthropogenic, or... almost certainly... a mix of the two?
     
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  10. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Holocene has been great for humans. And the current warming period is no different from all the 9 warming periods of the last 10,000 years. The current warming period started at the end of the little ice age which ended in the early 1800’s. If there was not a politically motivated global warming alarmism no one would have concern for the current warming. Since the warming is beneficial it would be celebrated.
     
  11. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And that the current warming is no different than the previous 9 of the Holocene.
     
  12. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If I misunderstood, i am sorry, and happy to continue based upon what you say
     
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  13. Nathan-D

    Nathan-D Member

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    Heh.
    Probably a mix of the two, at least in my view.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  14. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, to be clear.. you are not now arguing whether we are or are not impacting the climate... you are saying that even if we are impacting the climate, there is nothing to worry about because of your holocene argument .... correct?
     
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  15. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ok
    I would like to take this up later .... but am leaving town today and so probably better start getting ready
    Have a nice day
     
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  16. Nathan-D

    Nathan-D Member

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    You too. :smile:
     
  17. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am stating facts which the IPCC ignores. They blame all warming on AGW. History indicates there is nothing extraordinarily different between the current warming period and the previous 9 Holocene warming periods. You can draw your own conclusions.

    Regardless global warming is beneficial and there is politically possible to significantly reduce human CO2 emissions.
     
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  18. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am not certain I want the emissions to get smaller. CO2 is wonderful for greening Earth.
     
  19. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Exactly. At the end of the last ice age CO2 got down to ~ 180 ppm. Much of terrestrial plant life dies at less than 150 ppm. We are actually in a CO2 deprivation state at this point in the natural history of the globe.
     
  20. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    I'm making up the LIA which caused mass starvation as glaciers spread out over farmland? You need to do some reading.
     
  21. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    You think the LIA was regional? Guess you better run and tell me to have a nice day too. lol
     
  22. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    I stopped reading when you compared C02 to botulism.
     
  23. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There was ice skating on the Thames. In the Medieval Warm Period a few hundred years before the were making wine in the same area.
     
  24. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Would you prefer cyanide
     
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  25. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    And it was a world wide even not just regional and it had extremely fast climate shifts from decade to decade and even year to year. So much for a regional event. So much for climate never changed this fast before.

    "As noted in Ref. [10], the beginning of the LIA is marked by the heavy rains, severe winters and harvest fails in 1315–1319 widespread in England. But, it needs to be noted that firstly, the timing of cold conditions occurred differently from region to region, and secondly, throughout the span of the LIA, the climate was never monotonically cold or always favourable to glacial expansion but instead with sometimes disastrous shifts between warmth and coldness at centennial, decadal, or even annual scales [11]. Although the observational record is less available outside of the North Atlantic region, it is well studied that mountain glaciers advanced far beyond their modern limits in highlands of Asia, the Andes of South America, New Zealand, western North America and other ranges, e.g. [1218]. Grove’s book [2] provides a summary of the LIA-type events from all major regions over the world."

    https://www.intechopen.com/books/gl...glacier-changes-in-the-tian-shan-central-asia
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
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