Islam & Christianity the same tradition ?

Huh?

 

Fulfilling doesn’t abolish, as Jesus specifically told you lol.

 

Avoidance. I've given you four specific examples that would make works as the way to heaven problematic at best but you're not willing to deal with them and instead insist I answer your claim. Well, I can. There's almost nothing in the Sermon on the Mount that discusses works in any way. Almost everything in it deals with the inner man, your beliefs, your way of thinking, your way of living. This is the only line that deals specifically with works: "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Did Jesus say, "so God may see your good works and glorify you?" No, he did not. Seriously, if God is infinite, what could you possibly do for God? Not a damn thing. You can neither take away from nor give to God. The only thing God could possibly ask you for is your belief in him and acceptance of him. And that's all he does ask for. Those who do that are changed in a significant way and their works show that change. Okay, you're up. Answer how Lazarus, the thief, the dying, and dead babies can go to heaven without any works.

 

I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:17–18)

Which laws were not fulfilled by the time of Jesus death.

 

Right. Thank you for showing Jesus telling you he isn’t abolishing the old laws

 

lolol

Untill they are fulfilled.
Which laws, prophecies, were not fulfilled.


Thank you for admitting you know nothing about this subject.

 

I’m sorry that your religion is so silly and contradictory. But the fact remains. In the Christian holy text, Jesus specifically told you he’s not abolishing the old law. Sorry.

 

LOLOL
Untill the prophecies were fulfilled.

which were not fulfilled.

LOLOL

Is English your second language.

 

Your claim that there is nothing that discusses works in the Sermon on the mount is abject nonsense on steroids. This comment makes me conclude that you are not aware of what works are.

The golden rule is "works". Forgiveness is works. Helping the poor is "works". All of this is discussed.

Jesus says that it is not the hearing of the word that builds a strong foundation but the "DOING" . He says that "only those that do the will of the Father make it through the pearly gates" .. that will being works .. works and more works.

The entire sermon on the mount is about works.

I have not avoided the other passages and will happily discuss them - the problem for the moment however is your complete abject denial of reality with respect to the sermon on the mount. You are the one who is avoiding.

 

No, see, you're taking things out of context and adding context that is not there. Matthew 12:37 "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Not works, words. When Jesus talked about those who do the will of the Father, he was talking about the saved. That's why he made the distinction that he did about those who just do works, casting out demons and such, that works alone are not enough. Works alone are like washing a car but never touching the surface with the rag. You're going through the motions but you aren't actually accomplishing anything. Better analogy: the man who buys a new car and washes it with love and attention because he wants to versus his son who washes it with resentment and bitterness because he was ordered to. Which one is going to do a better job? Which one would you say is going to get into heaven? The first one does the work because his heart is in it. The second one does the work because he wants to get something out of it. Those who do good works to get into heaven are like the son who is resentful and not like the father who is joyful. Those who are saved by grace do good works like the father who is joyful. And those who do good works to get into heaven would be in for a nasty surprise if God actually existed.

 

Works is not casting out demons - that is an act of faith. Calling out "Lord Lord" is not an act of works - it is an act of faith. Prophesying in the name of the lord is not "works" it is an act of faith. These "faith alone" actions are what Jesus condemns.

He then clarifies explicitly that it is not the hearing of the word that matters (an act of faith) but the doing of the word. Helping the poor, loving neighbor as self, the golden rule - judge not lest ye be judged, let ye who is without sin cast the first rock, take log out of own eye before picking speck out of brothers.

All these things are what Jesus discusses in the sermon on the mount .. All are works - Your claim that Jesus does not discuss works in the sermon on the mount is complete - unadulterated falsehood --- FULL STOP.

Your claim is absurd. Jesus states that the Golden Rule (works) "Sums up the law and the prophets"

He doesn't say "faith" sums up the law and the Prophets - it is works. You can to on and on with respect to Pauline theology - I am talking about what Jesus said ... not what Paul says.

 

Mainstream Islam opposes terrorism strongly.

Muslims are the ones who fight AGAINST terrorism in the ME today. In our clumsy and often counterproductive way, we attempt to support these efforts. But, WE are not the ones doing the fighting and dying. We are not the ones sacrificing their cities, their homes, and their lives.

Muslims are the TARGET of terrorism that is based in the ME today.

The idea that we could slow terrorism by fighting Islam is criminal level nonsense. It isn't tied to the reasons for terrorism. It isn't possible to win through military force against a religion so huge. Suggesting a methodology that does NOT address the reasons for the terrorism in question and is NOT even possible is a promise of failure.

 

Actually that is not correct.
A quick example is the apostate laws, which most of Islam agrees with.
That is terrorism in it's purest form.

And I suggest education.
Putting the facts on the table.

As I said before, most Muslims know little about Islam, and if the real Islam was shoved in their face, they would leave.

The world needs to stop lying about it.

 

Surely a "tradition" as large as a "Judeo-Christian" will have differences this large. All three significant Abrahamic faiths have differences in what is required to get to heaven.

This topic boils down to how one would define a religious tradition. If one wants to separate any one of the three, surely the others must be separated as well. In fact, it's quite reasonable to believe that other divisions could be required as well.

 

What can send you to Heaven in Islam, can send you to hell in Christianity.

 

All religions include stuff that is not carried out the way it was proposed in ancient times - even in times when there wasn't active war.

I just don't see value in your claim.

I'd point out that (especially under Trump) WE support dictatorships which use totally illegitimate methods and stand AGAINST everything we believe. Simply suggesting our actions are more Biblical than those of someone else is a fail.

 

?? I noted that!! What works in Judaism also fails in Christianity.

There are differences between each of them in terms of what it takes to get to heaven. There are even differences within Christianity.

 

NO> Islamic BS is carried out daily.
We average 6 terror attacks a day. Most have multiple victims

If more people learned about Muhammed, there would be more attacks, and I believe more people leaving the religion.

 

In 2018 we had what WIKI logs as terrorism from:
- a Nazi
- Condit in Texas, a Christian activist
- a Sovereign Citizen militant (US right wing group of tax protesters, etc.)
- a far right extremist by the name of Cesar Alteri Sayoc Jr. who pleaded guilty of a series of mailbombs and other charges (65 in total)
- a right winger in Kentucky, Gregory Alan Bush who shot two elderly black guys in a hate crime event
- a far right extremist Robert Bowers who stated that "all Jews must die" and killed 11 in a syn agog in Pittsburgh.

AND YOU want to go after Muslims!!!

If you want to end this kind of politically motivated violence that you accuse Islam of carrying out, you need to switch to advocating action against AMERICA'S RIGHT WING extremists.

 

If you think about it, this is good news. We've managed to suppress and prevent a lot of Islamic attacks on US soil. Internationally, the news isn't nearly the same. In 2018, the same year that six white nationalists (not really right-wing if you understand the horseshoe theory), "there were 1984 Islamic attacks in 55 countries, in which 11782 people were killed and 11488 injured." (https://thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=2018) At least 15 of those attacks were in Europe. Three churches a day are vandalized in attacks by Muslims in France. And here are the 2018 terrorist attacks by Muslims in the US you didn't mention:

Greenville, SC 0 1 A bomb left on a road by a 'radicalized' convert injures a passerby.
Tahlequah, OK 0 1 A Muslim yelling 'Allah' stabs a non-Muslim following an argument over religion.
Palm Beach Gardens, FL 1 2 A recent convert to Islam stabs three people over his religion, including two 13-year-olds.
Travis AFB, CA 0 0 A suicide bomber rams the gate at an Air Force base, but kills only himself.

One more final point: Literally no one is publicly defending white nationalists but practically the entire Democratic party and the far left are defending Muslims, as though religiously motivated terrorism isn't the same as ethnically motivated terrorism. If white nationalism is a terrorist-inspiring ideology (and it is), then so is Islam. Stop defending Islam.

 

I looked through every month of the wiki 2018 list and did not see any of those events you list.

The US radical right/white supremacists see Trump as encouraging them. So, your idea that nobody is protecting the radical right is nonsense - they're actually getting promoted - according to them.

No, you don't have evidence of Islam being terrorist. Islam fights AGAINST terrorists. Islam is by FAR the most frequent target of ME terrorism. And, Muslims are the ones fighting against that.

Like with white supremacists, it isn't all about religion.

 

Then tell me...

Where are the "moderate" Muslims publicly condemning the Islamic terror attacks in Europe, Africa, North America, and even South America? Where are they? Why are they more keen on using victim cards and scapegoats like "the crusades" and "The war in Iraq" instead of acknowledging the atrocities committed in the religion that governs their way of life in almost every way?

Why do they blame other cultures and religions for terror attacks and consistently say "Islamophobia" when the subject is brought up.

WHY are they turning a blind eye and staying silent. Why do they frequently get hostile and upset whenever non Muslims wish to discuss radical Islamic terror?

More importantly, why do liberals behave similarly in regards to Islamic terror?

 

So you're going to ignore people whose deaths is caused by "Dindu nuffin' Muslims"?

Cute, really.

 

??? The ARE speaking out.
https://ing.org/global-condemnations-of-isis-isil/
https://kurzman.unc.edu/islamic-statements-against-terrorism/
https://brill.com/view/journals/jome/7/2/article-p146_2.xml?lang=en

etc.

What tends NOT to happen is US media reporting Islamic objections to terrorism or bothering to dissect terrorist groups from the vast population of Islam - even though the vast majority of victims of these groups are Muslims and even though almost all of those fighting these groups are Muslim.

It also gets forgotten that the Muslim population of the entire ME is only 17% of Islam - and terrorist groups are a tiny, tiny percent of that 17%. Yet, so many in the US suggest that it is that miniscule group that defines Islam!!

So, instead of actually looking, people in the US don't see it in the news media and thus assume that Islam is the problem, not that Islam is fighting the problem.

 

I did not say anything even REMOTELY similar to that.

And as usual, your ad hom says more about you than anything else.