Why Do Americans Keep Voting for Republicans and Democrats? Are They Stupid?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Ethereal, Jul 23, 2019.

  1. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    No they don't. The powers of each branch are spelled out clearly in the Constitution. The branches abide by that prescription.
    Show examples.
     
  2. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, they just enacted laws that benefited them at the state level. Have you looked at the ballots for congress? In 2018 the choices or names on the ballot in approximately 400 of the 435 districts had just two candidates if that. A Republican and a Democrat. You can't vote for someone else if they're not on the ballot. 2018 senate races, 19 of the 34 senate races had just a Republican and a Democrat. The Libertarian Party had candidates on the rest, but received less than 5% of the vote in any state they were on the ballot. Mainly because they didn't have the finances to compete.

    2016 presidential race. Trump and Clinton had automatic ballot access on 50 states, Gary Johnson the libertarian candidate was also on all 50 state ballots. Johnson did receive 3.2% of the total vote. But was left off the presidential debates, he had no money to speak of and just became an unknown name on the ballot. No one outside of the most avid political junkies know who he was. Jill Stein, the Green Party Candidate wast on the ballot in 43 states, in another 3 states one could write her name in, but she was not on the ballot and in the final 4 states, one couldn't even do that.

    What it boils down to is only the Republican and or the Democrat stand a chance of winning. Money wise, Hillary raised and spent 1.191 billion dollars, Trump 646.8 million, Johnson 3 million.
     
  3. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    No, it's not a 'fact'. Your depiction is your perception, and yours only. That does not make it fact. Just because not everyone can stand up and lead, means that our choices are limited to those who volunteer for it. Personally, I've stayed away from the main parties.

    How about you put your glutes out there and run for office, on a grand scale. Or perhaps you did, at some point. Bit of a learning curve, eh?
     
  4. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    What makes you think the voting block for a 3rd party is massive?
     
  5. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. But 57% of Americans say a viable third party is needed.

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/244094...utm_content=morelink&utm_campaign=syndication

    that 57% includes 72% of independents who say their would support a third major party. I don't think the above says they would vote for a major third party. But they want more choices than just the R and the D. Trump vs. Clinton wasn't a choice, not when 25% of all Americans disliked and didn't want neither one to become their next president. That included 54% of all independents.

    https://news.gallup.com/opinion/pol...mericans-dislike-presidential-candidates.aspx
     
  6. WalterSobchak

    WalterSobchak Well-Known Member

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    Really.

    Gary Johnson.

    I have no idea.
     
  7. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hahahahahahahahahaha! Omg hahahahaha!
     
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  8. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    In 2008, Republicans had a choice between John McCain and Ron Paul. They chose McCain.

    And in 2012, Republicans had a choice between Mitt Romney and Ron Paul. They chose Romney.

    You know what they say... stupid is as stupid does.
     
  9. nra37922

    nra37922 Well-Known Member

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    Why Do Americans Keep Voting for Republicans and Democrats? Are They Stupid?

    MOST are. Next question..
     
  10. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Trump promised to eliminate the debt in eight years. Instead, he's putting forward budget proposals that will add $14 trillion to the debt in eight years. Looks like the joke's on you.
     
  11. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump doesn't control the budget. Try harder.
     
  12. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    Perhaps Trump should have been intelligent enough to know this before he uttered that lie.

    And to think, Trump voters were dumb enough believe it.
     
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  13. Pipette8

    Pipette8 Well-Known Member

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    We have no other choices but dem or repub. Independent candidates can never win. Our candidates are pre-approved by the ruling elite. Without their 'help' you can't get elected.
     
  14. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    No. It makes them realists. I've seen liars and crooks in both parties, and I've also seen honorable people... and everything in between..

    I haven't seen anything different in third-party candidates.
     
  15. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Registration numbers for independents are huge, just no candidate or Independent "party" we vote d & r because no alternative is presented. Shut out of primaries too.

    Yes I realize that I'm dramatically oversimplifying my scenario. but the roots are there, they just need water and sunshine. I think 20 million voters are chomping at the bit for a 3rd option not just for potus, but especially for Congress. Those 20 can multiply if the media plays along.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
  16. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    R congress, D congress, mixed Congress. It doesn't matter. 25% or lower approval for a decade or more.
    Americans are stupid, not congress. Congress knows how to play the good cop/bad cop. Notice how the Ds took it on the chin for ACA, but R's that are elected are happy with it. That's why no plan is in place to change it.
     
  17. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Calling people stupid is not identifying the problem. It's just name-calling!
    If what you're actually wanting to say is that folks lack some certain information and or need to change their way of thinking in some way, then it would be much much more effective in my opinion... to just say that, rather than repeatedly slinging an insult.

    Either way though, whether an insult is used or not, we'll still also need to come up with actual solutions to the problem after identifying it, that is, if we actually care about improving things. So what would your solution be? And also, what did you think of the solutions I posted regarding discussing and fixing the systemic factors??

    -Meta
     
  18. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    I think that if the system were actually fair and the two-party duopoly were not given undue advantage over third-parties/independents that a lot of those people who tend not to vote now would all of a sudden become a lot more inclined. I also believe that Ranked Voting in particular would lead to many folks across the board studying the candidates and their views at least a little bit more closely. When there are only two choices, its much easier for folks to my snap judgments without really paying attention to the finer details.

    -Meta
     
  19. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    What is your opinion on Ranked Voting methods like Instant Runoff and Ranked Pairs?

    -Meta
     
  20. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, we were smart enough to know how much control he had when he said it.

    Enjoy your free college, free reparations and free whatever else you'll get if Democrats ever climb out of the abyss.
     
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  21. MB74

    MB74 Member

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    No one really knows how many Americans voted for Trump.
     
  22. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    I think you're wrong. I think a healthy chunk of the country simply are too busy living day today lives with which they are quite content and which pack of screaming idiots is running the country is utterly immaterial to them as long as their lives don't get disrupted.
     
  23. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    I dont believe the actual independents are nearly as large of a group as those polls say they are. If it was, we would see much more 3rd party influence in down ballot elections.
     
  24. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    Trump vs Clinton was more about which candidate drove more people to vote for the other than who they drew to vote for themselves.
     
  25. perotista

    perotista Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What that match up did was drive 9 million people to the polls just to vote against both, to have their vote officially recorded as being against them. That is 6% of the electorate who voted. Compare that to 2012 1.5% voted third party, 2008, 1.2% third party, 2004 1.0% voted third party.

    What 2016 was an election where most folks voted for the candidate they least wanted to lose, not win, but least wanted to lose. I call 2016 the anti election. Others may call it the lesser of two evils. I think if any other candidate went against Trump, that candidate would have trounced him. Same for another Republican going against Hillary, that other Republican would have won by 10 points instead of losing the popular vote by 2.

    What is clear Trump and Clinton were the two most unpopular and two most unwanted candidates in our history. You can compare favorable/unfavorable of all the candidates since Eisenhower below.

    Highest to lowest favorable/unfavorable ratings of each major party presidential candidate.

    Favorable/unfavorable

    1956 Eisenhower 84/12%

    1964 LBJ 81/13%

    1976 Carter 81/16%

    1960 JFK 80/14%

    1960 Nixon 79/16%

    1968 Nixon 79/22%

    1976 Ford 79/20%

    1972 Nixon 76/21%

    1968 Humphrey 72/28%

    1984 Reagan 71/30%

    1980 Carter 68/32%

    1984 Mondale 66/34%

    1980 Reagan 64/31%

    1992 Bill Clinton 64/33%

    2008 Obama 62/35%

    2012 Obama 62/37%

    1956 Stevenson 61/31%

    2004 G.W. Bush 61/39%

    2008 McCain 60/35%

    1992 G.H.W. Bush 59/40%

    2000 G.W. Bush 58/38%

    2004 Kerry 57/40%

    1996 Bill Clinton 56/42%

    1988 G.H.W. Bush 56/39%

    2000 Gore 55/45%

    2012 Romney 55/43%

    1972 McGovern 55/41%

    1996 Dole 54/45%

    1988 Dukakis 50/45%

    1964 Goldwater 43/47%

    2016 Hillary Clinton 38/56%

    2016 Donald Trump 36/60%

    I think this shows up in the constant disapproval rating of Trump from when he first entered the office of the presidency to today. A steady 52-56% disapproval, the ones who didn't like or want him before the election really haven't changed their minds about him.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019

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