One way to help prevent mass murders

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by logical1, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Since more than 90% of mass murders have been committed in gun free zones, the best solution to cut down on these killings is to get rid of gun free zones.

    Any deranged killer knows if he goes to a gun free zone, with no other guns around, he will have time to kill as many people as he can before the police show up.

    OTOH this same deranged killer knows that if he goes to a non gun free zone, any good guy with a gun may shoot him before he can get many rounds off.

    The suggestion is logical and common sense.

    Try to prove me wrong.
     
  2. stratego

    stratego Well-Known Member

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    The way to prevent mass murder is for everyone to wear bulletproof everything.

    Actually if you adjust for population, the US has a lower mass shooting rate than Denmark. Mass shooting is currently defined a 4 or more dead. But since the US has 60x the population of Denmark, we should only count it if it had 240+ dead.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  3. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Many mass murderers go in with intent of either committing suicide or being made a martyr. Just proved you wrong.

    Since people don't come forward and admit they carried a concealed weapon and were just afraid to use it or could not use it for other reasons, you don't know if there were guns present or not. There were numerous police around the Vegas shooting grounds, he just modified his attack to compensate for police presence.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  4. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    The OP has a point.
     
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  5. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Not really. Mass shooters don't go into a situation with thoughts that they are going to get away with it. Many commit suicide or plan to become martyrs. People like that really don't care if there might be armed people around - in their minds, they want to go out in a blaze of glory.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  6. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    Courtrooms are gun free zones...You do understand that a gun free zone is not free of guns? It merely means only those permitted to be armed can be armed..
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  7. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Describing neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and members of the KKK who participated in an armed invasion of Charlottesville, VA, Trump said, "you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides."

    Describing four women of color who are members of Congress and known as "The Squad," Trump said, “Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came.”

    When Trump announced his candidacy in 2015, he said, "When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists."

    At a political rally in El Paso in February, Trump said ICE had picked up immigrants for tens of thousands of crimes, and ticked off a list of those crimes and the stats that he claimed accompanied them. He further claimed there were "4,000 immigrant murderers swept up by ICE in the previous two years." The White House could not substantiate the claim. “Murders, murders, murders. Killings. Murders,” Trump said maniacally, prompting chants of “build the wall” from the crowd.

    "Invasion. Aliens. Killers. Criminals." Those are among the words Trump repeatedly uses while discussing immigrants during his campaign rallies, according to a USA TODAY analysis of the transcripts from more than five dozen of those events.

    Patrick W. Crusius, 21, told police that he had targeted Mexicans. He wrote a four-page manifesto that said he was carrying out the attack in “response to the Hispanic invasion of Texas.”

    Politico reports, "House Minority Whip Steve Scalise on Sunday called it “a very slippery slope” to blame President Donald Trump’s rhetoric for deadly mass shootings in recent weeks."

    “But to try to assign blame to somebody else, I think, is a very slippery slope because the president's no more responsible for that shooting as your next guest, Bernie Sanders, is for my shooting,” said Scalise"

    What a crock of pathetic bullshit! Republicans are desperate to explain away Trump's dangerous rhetoric. Of course, giving us a load of B.S. is a lot easier on television where Trump's inflammatory rhetoric in not evident.
     
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  8. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Dayton proves that to be pure nonsense
     
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  9. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    WRONG! A crazy mass shooter will see a gun free Zone sign and say "oh damn, gun free zone..Guess I better find another place to shoot up".
    I just proved you wrong. How do you like dem apples??
     
  10. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    The incidents where a mass murderer has been stopped by an armed citizen are so rare that it doesn't matter if it's in a "gun free zone" or not. Law enforcement stops virtually all mass murderers and they're not restricted by gun free zones.

    We can note that neither the El Paso terrorist attack or the attack in Dayton Ohio was in a designated gun free zone. In Dayton there was a restriction because people could carry alcoholic cocktails onto the sidewalks and the law prohibits carrying firearms where alcohol is served but that's a situational restriction and not a area restriction on carrying firearms. In short if a person is armed and walking down the street before the bars open they can carry a firearm. The Walmart in El Paso may have also had a business policy that no firearms could be carried into the store but that's not a gun free zone.

    In fact the point isn't about stopping mass murderers. They won't be stopped by any measures we can think of. The point is to reduce the number of dead and wounded victims from mass murderers. There are pragmatic measures that can reduce the number of dead and wounded victims.

    1, Limit magazine capacity. When the murderer is reloading they're not killing or wounding anyone.

    2. Prohibit future sales of newly manufactured semiautomatic carbine rifles that were designed for use by the military. The M-16 and AK-47 were designed specifically to cause death and serious wounds in a combat situation using the semiautomatic function. The full automatic mode only has one use and it's not for killing or wounding the enemy. The full automatic mode is used for fire suppression to escape a combat situation. Full automatic is used to make the enemy take cover so you can escape when they're not shooting at you.

    Mass murderers using the civilian versions in semiautomatic mode are using the firearm exactly like the military does when it's used to kill and wound people.
     
  11. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    The OP is interesting, however in the gun open zones what luck do 'good guys with guns' have: not much.

    An examples is the SC security guard who secured the situation in a venue only then to be killed by the cops despite being in uniform: probably for being a black guy holding white guys at bay.
     
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  12. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you believe that everyone on both sides was evil?
     
  13. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    I am pretty sure there was evil on the unite the white right
     
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  14. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I don't see your point. Trump rehearsed the negatives of illegal immigration because the Congress refuses to act. Everything Trump said is true. It isn't incendiary or inciting to violence. And it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Perhaps if you were a victim of an illegal immigrant, you might not be trying to cover it up or pretend it isn't happening.
     
  15. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    But how will the socialists control the population if the citizens can have guns? That is how dems look at it.
     
  16. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Trump's language certainly is not helping the situation.
     
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  17. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    Funny you think the system the US has could result in one group controlling the country.

    You do realize the reason the founding fathers put checks and balances in place was because they knew man is susceptible to corruption which is why they set up the different branches. No party is going to take control over the country.
     
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  18. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    Maybe so, you are partly right, but they have to know armed police will soon be on the scene. Meanwhile they shoot as many people as they can. Logic tells us if a legal gun is already on scene it can limit the number of murders. The shooter's twisted thought may be that he'll shoot as many as he can in a gun free zone and then minutes later surrender when the police arrive and confront him. You have to also consider shooters who do not want to die. Arm the teachers, the kids and teachers need to protect themselves. Why must they be setting ducks?
     
  19. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    None of the weapons used in the recent killings had a fully automatic mode. Actually, I can't really think of any modern shooting in the US that involved a weapon capable of fully automatic fire. Closest would be the Las Vegas shooter, who used a bump stock to make a semi-auto mimic fully automatic fire
     
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  20. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Just A Man wrote, "Logic tells us if a legal gun is already on scene it can limit the number of murders", which is sensible, but so rarely does that happen.
     
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  21. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    ECA, I think elements in both parties want to do just that.
     
  22. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    There is a big difference between wanting to and being able to
     
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  23. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The El Paso shooter wasn't expecting to be alive. You are wrong....again.
     
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  24. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    There are ways to make this a permanent one party majority state within the laws.

    The Dems take Texas in 2020, and then start working on the NPV, and start stacking SCOTUS.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  25. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Clearly the only way to stop mass shootings is sensible limits on the right of assembly. If there aren’t four people in a place to be shot the mass shooter is SOL. I guess they could travel around and shoot one person at a time, but if it would save one life it’s worth doing.
     
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