”Moderates” who won’t condemn Muslims cutting off hands, are they “extremists”?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by FreedomSeeker, Sep 11, 2012.

  1. Lee S

    Lee S Moderator Staff Member Past Donor

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    I guess it would be dependent upon who you ask. In most Muslim countries, it is the men who want to do away with the Burqa while the women support its mandatory use. Why would you think that is the case? If you do not know, then there is a decent chance you do not know enough about Muslim culture to make well informed opinions.
     
  2. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From an islamic point of view, they're not obeying Muhammed but "God". The Quran is supposed to be the word of god, not Muhammed, Muhammed is just the messenger of the quran. However, muslims must obey the mailman on every other aspect.

    Those requirements are not listed in the quran but are from the sunna. I'm not sure every muslim jurist would agree on those 60 requirements.

    Moderate muslims are a own topic to their own. They're not a unificated group, and there is different kind of "moderates".

    @FreedomSeeker About reforming the quran, you can't reform the so called word of god. In fact, you can't already countersay the prophet, so why would you countersay his boss ?
     
  3. Migrunt

    Migrunt Banned

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    What's your source backing up your claim women support the burka?
     
  4. Lee S

    Lee S Moderator Staff Member Past Donor

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    Actually talking to women of the Middle East.
     
  5. Migrunt

    Migrunt Banned

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    I don't believe that.
     
  6. Lee S

    Lee S Moderator Staff Member Past Donor

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    I lived with an Arab family in Fujairah in the United Arab Emirates for a little more than a year. Of course you can choose to believe me or not, it makes no difference to me in any way. But even if you don't, you may want to at least expend some intellectual capital in trying to understand if women in Muslim countries support the use of the burqa and if they do, then why do they?

    Why did France and Denmark ban the burqa if women from Arab countries didn't want to wear them? Who fought the ban on the burqa in those countries? Why do American Muslims choose to wear a burqa if it is a sign of oppression? I simply want you to think about this and perhaps you may learn something and you may better understand what is really going on.
     
  7. Migrunt

    Migrunt Banned

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    I understand what is going on. The burka is oppressive and is forced on women by men in Muslim hierarchy. Sell that propaganda to some naive college kids.
     
  8. Moshty

    Moshty Member

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    So you've actually heard of a place where according to law there are less requirements?
     
  9. Moshty

    Moshty Member

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    :mrgreen:
    I'm all for pointing out that some women want to wear the Burqa but this is just too much. And for the record, many women like covering their face because if they don't they will be harassed - by men.
     
  10. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Algeria and Tunisia have banned women from wearing full face veils at work. Both are Arab, Muslim majority countries. Think about it.

    The question is not if women in Muslim countries, or in Muslim families in non-Muslim countries, support the use of the burqa. The question is if women in Muslim countries, or in Muslim families in non-Muslim countries, who do not support the use of burqa, are free not to wear it.

    Most Muslim women in my country don't wear burqa and don't cover their faces. Many don't even wear the hijab.

    There's a very good reason why the most advanced, civilized countries, are those where women are free and have equal rights.
     
  11. Lee S

    Lee S Moderator Staff Member Past Donor

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    I am not advocating the burqa, one way or another. I bring it up as an illustration that there are some pretty weird massively accepted misconceptions about Muslim culture. If one is trying to condemn the practice of removing the hands of thieves without the slightest hint of the cultural and societal background of a culture, then one is being intolerant based upon a complete lack of understanding of that culture. The only thing I am asking of anyone on this thread is to consider the notion that before one decries a cultural custom as barbaric, they really ought not judge it by one's own culture and nothing more.
     
  12. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't know if S.Arabia apply those requirements.
     
  13. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    One doesn't need to understand a culture to figure out that harsh physical punishments are incompatible with the values that should be espoused by the same people who fight against bigotry and intolerance. It's rather odd to condemn bigotry and intolerance in one's own society, while carefully avoiding to notice these in other societies, making excuses, or pretend that only specific societies have the right to be bigoted and intolerant.

    Me thinks that what you really wanted to say is that we shouldn't infer from cultural customs and religious practices that their followers are inherently bad people. This is what the humanist approach is all about, after all. We can judge and condemn customs without hating and demonizing the people who follow those customs.

    There's no way in hell, earth, heaven, or any parallel universe out there, that I won't judge and condemn such a disgusting practice as cutting off hands of thieves, though I'm well aware that the people involved are neither inherently evil, nor hopelessly barbaric or cruel.
     
  14. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    As the president of Turkey said, there is no moderate Islam, there is only Islam.
     
  15. Moshty

    Moshty Member

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    Tell him there is no moderate chauvinism, there is only chauvinism.
     
  16. Moshty

    Moshty Member

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    So you don't have any particular reason to doubt the matter. You just don't know because you haven't cared to find out and voice suspicion because of prejudice.
     
  17. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    By the way I have a particular reason to doubt the matter. The verse of the quran which edict the order to cut hands doesn't precise the 50 conditions you mention. You're the one which brought this story of 50 conditions, you're the one which have to prove it.
    I think it's uncessary that I go fetch the verse that order to cut hands to the thief.

    In any case, I don't have any problem to have prejudices against states, organizations or people that consider "great" to execute people which leave their religion. You can easily find the list of countries which practice such penalties, I won't bring it to you.
     

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