This Country Needs to Split

Evidently the term "Union Democrat" evades you..

 

The Constitution is a contract and to break that contract means that the terms of the contract will be enforced just as any other contract.

 

So President Obama didn't say to 'fight harder', 'if they bring a knife, we bring a gun'?
Did Tim Kaine call for Democrats to 'fight in the streets against Trump'?
Did Hillary call on liberals to 'resist', 'stay engaged in activism', and 'keep fighting'?

How about some of your Hollywood heroes?
Kathy Griffin holding up a decapitated Trump head?
Madonna fantasizing about blowing up the White House?

Should I keep going, or do you feel humiliated enough?

 

Split to California and build a wall.

 

You said it was a much worse plan. Couldn’t have been that worse if you didn’t lose any coverage. Glad we cleared that up.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/rep...olence-thats-a-direct-threat-to-our-democracy

This summer, California Democrat Rep. Maxine Waters called on her supporters to harass cabinet officials. Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Tuesday that you “cannot be civil” with members of the Republican Party. And Wednesday, videotape was released of former Attorney General Eric Holder telling a Democratic audience at a campaign rally in Georgia on Sunday that they should “kick” Republicans when they perceive them as “going low.”
Despite the continued reports of politically motivated threats or violence, Democratic Party leaders have worked to keep this anger burning and incite even more harassment and violence.

 

My out of pocket cost skyrocketed and I had to find a new specialist. I was told I would save $2300 and could keep my doctor? Did someone lie to me?

 

I think this gentleman's emotions took over and although obviously I cannot speak for him, I suspect on mature reflection he would not defend this statement.

Abraham Lincoln is one of the figures in American history that almost all Americans, Left and Right, still revere. And rightly so. We were so so lucky to have this man in place at the right time -- the 19th Century equivalent of Churchill.

There is one exception to the 'revere' thing, and it's actually on the Right. I don't know of any of these people who would admit to " idolizing" Booth, but there is a trend -- most concentrated in the "League of the South" and similar "neo-Confederates" who of course detest Lincoln,these people being a kind of "Southern Patriot." I think most of these people are rather sinister, although mainly just eccentrics, but ... if the South had not had slaves, I'm afraid I can really sympathyze with Southerners. However, even then, it would have been a bad thing for the South to secede -- it would have weakened the US substantially, and made it less prepared to play the critical role it did in the 20th Century in defending democracy.

There is a less sinister 'Southern Seccession apologist' trend, probably not large, which can be found in the book The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History.
A very critical review of it, from a conservative viewpoint, can be found here.

The next attack on Lincoln, I suspect, will come from the Left. Lincoln was after all a white supremacist who had supported deporting freed slaves. (I know this characterization of him can be disputed. Here is a defense of Lincoln. Here's more information about his view on deportation.) As America slides to the Left -- or rather, ascends toward outer space -- expect to see attacks on Mr Lincoln, but not from my side.

 

JFK didn't push for civil rights. He was a reluctant player. The party of slavery, segregation, and the KKK didn't change. They just adopted different tactics. Johnson admitted all he wanted was 200 years of votes. Heck, they still have to use Democrats like George Wallace as examples of racism. No Republican fits ,,, well except made up racists who are not racist at all. Look in any Democrat inner city and you can see how much Democrats care about blacks.

 

Yes, you're right.
I wouldn't use the supposed 'cities' on the East Coast as examples, although they may well have been very large before they were decimated by imported diseases. My examples are the Aztecs, Incas and Mayas, especially the latter, as they had invented a positional-exponential notation system for their mathematics, were doing serious astronomy, and like the other two groups, had large monumental public buildings. The Incas were equally impressive in many ways, from the little I know about them. We remember the Aztecs for their brutal sacrifices, but they had many other real achievements. I've read various explanations for their backwardness in metal work and their lack of the wheel, but they may just have been a bit late.

Their real failure, as Che Guevara noted, was that they didn't invent gunpowder.

By the way, this is a subject in which I am interested, so if you have links or book titles you especially recommend, I would be grateful to have them.

 

Yes, I believe you represent a large section of 'Blue America', perhaps even the majority, in having this attitude.
So ... what about a peaceful separation? Kick us out! Lots of practical difficulties for sure, but it can be done.
What do you think?

 

Which again, the specialist and out of pocket cost had nothing to do with Obamacare. The specialist has to do with the private insurance company’s contracts with providers and the out of pocket costs had to do with your company’s desire to share more of the costs with its employees.

 

Because I don't see any evidence that progressive urbanites are going to settle for tolerant coexistence with conservative ruralites. If they'll stop trying to restrict guns, raise taxes and dictate allowable language, we can heal and preserve. Do you think thats going to happen? Can they leave us alone?

 

Can you leave gay marriage alone? How about not trying to ban all abortions? Again, the Left isn’t the only side trying to impose things onto others. Both sides are guilty of such behavior.

 

I think this man is impulsive, and not very thoughtful to put it mildly. If the choice is between 'lying' and 'delusional' I would have to go for 'delusional'. But my word of choice would be 'careless' in choosing a word like 'revolt', which is a variable that can be filled with different content. 'Not My President' and 'Resist' is not far from 'Revolt', but 'screaming for civil war' is much further.

I'm pretty familiar with the many trends of the American conservative movement. I know a lot of people who have great concerns for the future of this country. They're worried about things like this:

and this:

and they want to be able to deal with people who are encouraged by the Democrats' embrace of 'reparations' to collect their reparations early. (At the moment, I don't think the scruffs of the 'John Brown Gun Club' are giving any concern.)

We know that the Fergusson rioters are now officially declared by most of the Democratic presidential contenders to be protesting in a just cause .. despite the Obama Justice Department finding that the policeman acted in self defense, the thug he shot is now proclaimed to be a martyr by Elizabeth Warren and others.

The implications for the future should be obvious to the meanest understanding, as well as answering the question 'who is provoking civil war'?

But I know of no one, at the moment, who is doing the kind of things you would do if you were instructing your followers to actually prepare for civil war. I won't elaborate on what those things might be, due to the desire not to be misquoted.

In fact, I know of no serious tendencies on the Right who even want a peaceful separation. Conservatives are, well, conservative. They don't like radical leaps. And they're patriots. The last thing they want to see is their country divided.

But in this case they're wrong.

The ship is sinking -- or, maybe I should say, ascending into the stratosphere, and we've got to save as much as we can. We no longer have enough values in common to keep us together, or won't within a few more years, given the speed of the decay of these values on the Left. So we should go.

We can keep the American flag flying on one part of the land, you can keep it burning on the rest. Everyone's happy.

So I hope to see conservatives soon discussing the possibility of a peaceful separation ... and not only conservatives. You would be so much happier to see us gone, admit it.

 

100% complete bullshit. Since I"m management, I sat in on all those insurance meetings. I saw the numbers, and it was completely due to Obamacare.

 

Gay marriage is done and over with. Just don't force churches to do the ceremonies, and private businesses to cater their weddings if they don't want.

Abortion will always be a debate because there are hundreds of ways to look at it.

So what exactly is the right trying to impose on people? White guilt? Reparations?

 

I don't understand your thinking here. The people who elected Trump are the flag-wavers and the champions of the Constitution and the gun owners and the believers in personal liberty. What exactly is your notion of "patriotism" and "American principles" that they do not represent? What are the American principles that you seem to think they don't stand for? Open borders? Not an American principle. Gay rights? Not an American principle. Men in women's bathrooms? Not an American principle. Socialist policies like free health care and free college tuition? Not an American principle. Pretty much nothing the Democratic party stands for today is anything remotely like what America has stood for for the last 140 years, and for the most part, nothing like what the Democratic party stood for under Truman, Kennedy, or even Bill Clinton. From where I stand, everything the Democrats want will destroy America. So what exactly about Trump supporters is it that you don't think is patriotic or represents American principles?

 

Free & open access to guns is a major cause of the mass shootings we're all experiencing around us today. I know gun control laws won't stop the slaughter, but they can reduce it. In that vein, I support strong background checks for ALL gun sales, the end of gun show exceptions, ending sales of large capacity magazines, and making all automatic weapons illegal. The 2nd Amendment gives Americans the right to own a gun, but doesn't preclude our right to restrict specific types of guns from sale & ownership.

I want to raise taxes on any corporation who has made millions or billions & never been responsible enough to pay their fair share of taxes. I want to do the same for any ultra-rich individuals or families who have avoided paying taxes. Overall, I want to raise taxes on the ultra-wealthy & corporations, to force them to pay their fair share. We've demanded our highest taxes from our middle & worker classes far too long. It's time for a change.

I support our freedom of speech, but I also support any business manager's right to refuse employment to anyone publicly displaying racist views or tendencies, because ALL Americans should enjoy the same human rights together, & no one should have the right to infringe on those rights, for any reason--especially reasons based on hatred or prejudice.

 

Neither of those are anyones agenda in WA where I live. I oppose banning abortion and I think gays should have the same rights as straights (and I think marriage in the context of making a contract with the govt is stupid regardless. everyone should just be wed imo), but I have no say in it.

Folks here would be happy to let Seattle progress and collectivize itself ad infinitum if they thought it would stay in seattle. But it won't. They redistricted middle WA (totally rural) into a voting block with suburban seattle via a narrow channel through the mountains (i believe they call this gerrymandering) and use their population density to impliment gun laws that are wildly unpopular outside the metro area (most of our county sheriffs are rebelling, issuing public statements that they refuse to enforce the new laws).

Quite frankly, If it can be demonstrated that its ruralites imposing an abortion ban on urbanites in Alabama, then let slip the dogs of culture war imo. But thats an exception to the rule (I don't think gay marriage is in legitimate jeopardy anywhere, but if it is, then same). By and large, rural communities would happily let urbania do w/e the hell it wanted to itself, but it seems to think everyone else must participate. So long as this remains true, there can not be healing.

 

I'm saying we should have our own sovereign territory where our values and culture are the norm. And by the way, by 'values and culture' I don't mean specifically conservative values and culture. I'll happily settle for those of 1960 -- for Jack Kennedy's in fact. But then, by today's standards, those were conservative values and culture.

It's 'separate', not 'leave'. I would love to have our side keep all the American symbols, to be the 'real' United States. There would be great psychological value in it, if for no other reason. But they other people will be the majority -- probably already are. TEXAS WILL SOON BE A BLUE STATE. So we'll probably be the 'leavers'.

As for 'moving back'. There are strong reasons for pledging to allow anyone who is at the moment a genuine citizen of the 'old Republic', to move to hours. There will probably be millions of 'Red State Refugees' moving out of the New Blue Republic, for reasons you can probably guess at. A tragedy but we can't avoid it. There is the problem of people who have 'Blue State Values' who find, after a few years, that they would rather live in our country -- the problem of Californians moving to Texas because Texas has a better economic environment.

So won't they come in and infect us? Perhaps we could have the following arrangement -- former citizens of the old Republic, even if they opted for the Blue one, can have the right of residence, but not the right to vote, unless they fulfill our new citizenship requirement, which would require some form of military service past or present -- adjusted for age and ability -- before one could take the oath of citizenship. That should weed out most of the really objectionable ones.

And -- I would be quite open for settlement by sane liberals. A lot of these people are actually uncomfortable with the direction the Demcrats are drifting in, but can't do anything about it. I think also, by the way, we'll actually be more racially diverse than the Blue Republic (or whatever they will call it -- I don't think 'Republic', so maybe they'll go for 'Commonwealth' or something). I think we'll get most of the Jews, Indians, Vietnamese, Chinese, Hispanic and Black vets and policemen, small business owners (can you run a vegetarian Mexican restaurant? Can there be such a thing? It will soon be difficult not to in the Blue Commonwealth.)
Normal liberals who don't want their children canvassed for possible transgender or gay tendencies and then groomed for such in the schools -- hell, I think we might be bursting at the seams after a few years. But that's the kind of problem it's nice to have.

And there CAN be a wall separating us. That's the nice thing about running your own country. Let's start seriously thinking about it.

 

So you don't see any evidence of it happening either.

If you won't relent, and we won't relent...

 

I wouldn't disagree with a whole lot of that, but you've got to be careful about that 'publicly displaying racist views or tendencies'.
If I voice the opinion that the white race has contributed the most to civilization over the last few hundred years, can I be fired for that reason?
If I say Jews should have their own state if they want it, a specifically Jewish state ... fired?
Would a professor who asserted that one tribal group is superior to another in intelligence, partly for genetic reasons, keep his job?
Would someone who says that when they hear footsteps behind them at night and turn around and see that the young men behind them are white, not Black, they feel relieved -- could they be fired?

 

Well that's the whole rub. California liberals are moving to places like Texas because their policies have made California virtually unlivable. But many of them simply aren't bright, so they'll bring their stupid ideas and try to implement them in the new state. They figure 'it'll work this time'.

 

I am disappointed in myself for even suggesting this. The nation truly is already divided and it will take a natural disaster to unify "us'. I still got hope that education and security can promote forward progress but the truth is that humans have never strayed from the path of least resistance. We are a group where our daily comforts are more important then acting upon the ample opportunity that we are all given from birth to correct our corrupt institutions. lets make it happen.