Portland protests Aug. 17: What you need to know

Well.... I have great respect for the BBC ... it makes some wonderful nature programs. But ... it is definitely run by people who have a reflexively-left view of the world, and filters the news accordingly.

They had a short piece on Portland, and spent some time on the Proud Boys, who they called a 'white nationalist' organization. Then they smoothy switched over to an interview with a leader of 'The League for the South', which IS a white nationalist organization. An old broadcasting trick ... your audience will not necessarily be watching with total attention, all these names are strange to them anyway ... so they go away with the impression, 'Proud Boys'/League for the South/white nationalists.... and of course you end your broadcast with the most extreme of the people you're interviewing, which as any cognitive psychology student can tell you is the one who will linger in your maind.

The Australian Broadcasting Corporation has a two-part documentary on the Proud Boys which I am in the process of watching. (You can find Part I on YouTube -- I have not looked yet for Part II.) I've watched about half of the first one, and it seems pretty honest -- and did you know that Proud Boys has spread to Australia? -- what comes across is that they are 'masculinists' -- it's sex, not race, that pushes their buttons. And from what I've watched so far, they're pretty reasonable -- 'first wave feminists' if you know what I mean -- fine with equal rights. Jordan Peterson at the grassroots.

Of course, the people who speak to the nice reporters are probably more articulate, intelligent, and have absorbed the current basic social conventions-- I wouldn't want to testify that every single member is pure on the 'Woman Question'. But then I wouldn't want to testify that about an exclusively-male branch of the Trotskyist Socialist Workers Party (UK), consisting only of coal miners. [The SWP is the closest we have to AntiFa over here, but they are much more serious and disciplined. They had a big split a few years ago -- seems some of their leaders were raping their girlfriends and others were covering it up. Everyone in that world generates hysterical lies as effortlessly as they breathe, so I never figured out what truth, if any, there was in the accusations, which they usually aim at us. Live by the sword, die by the sword.]

I'm in the process of trying to find out more about the grassroots groups in America -- both Anti-Fa and the Proud Boys. One thing I have found out about the apparently much smaller 'Patriot Prayer' run by a guy named Joey Gibson, is: stay away from him. A few years ago he posted some very crude, sick stuff about women on social media, and while he may have cleaned up his act, those sorts of attitudes are not 'ideological' but are deeply rooted in one's personality. If a 14-kyear-old did something like that, seeking to shock, I would say, give him another chance, once he's been through a Maoist-style Criticism/Self-Critcism Struggle Session and has Rectified his Reactionary Thinking. But when a grown-up does stuff like that -- taboo!

Of all the groups the Lying Left love to lie about, I think the OathKeepers look the best. They have an eccentric tilt -- in the 'Sovereign Citizen' direction if you know about them -- but their leader is resolutely against any kind of ethnic nationalism, which he rightly sees as directly counterposed to American patriotism. He directed his members to stay away from Portland on Saturday, and had some very cogent reasons for doing so. (Including good criticisms of the Proud Boys, who hae not yet learned to exercise proper hygiene against White Nationalists.) I posted his proclamation somewhere on this thread earlier. He not only knows what's morally right, he knows why it's tactically right. He talks like someone who has professionally studied military strategy and tactics -- which he is. Just the kind of person we need in our leadership.

I've not really checked them out thoroughly yet. They seem to have a 'New World Order' conspiracy theory tilt -- very similar to many people and groups on the Left, in fact. I think this comes about because we do not have a conservative movement that is oriented toward the masses of people, towards bringing them more than entertainment a la Glenn Beck and Limbaugh and Fox News, as splendid as these may be. All those nice journals, disputing about Integralism and Natural Law, all very well in their way, and necessary, but ... we need to educate our base.

The Southern Poverty Law Center says they're a 'radical anti-government organization' and lists all the dreadful things they've done, like going to Ferguson to protect businesses from the violent rioting mobs there -- the SPLC sniffs that although the claimed to have protected the business of a Black woman, it was clear they were really there to protect whites. (Devious, these white nationalists ) Plus a couple of genuinely criminal/crazy things said and done by individual members, which, of course, the SPLC tries to portray as typical of the group as a whole. (Lee Harvey Oswald was a member of the same Young Socialists organization as I was, and we were definitely anti-government -- thank goodness there was not a rightwing SPLC around then to tie us to him.) [Click on the emboldened name to read their report.]

Whoops ...time to turn in this term paper. Teacher said not to go above 1000 words.

 

Yes conservatives just want to be left alone and live and let live as long as its by THEIR rules.

Its not conservatives putting on masks and assaulting people, its "conservatives" picking up AR15's and shooting up schools, shopping malls and houses of worship. But I get how the masks and beatings are so much worse.

And some opposing viewpoints deserve to be shut down because they have no place in modern society. And being a scumbag fascist or bigoted ethno nationalist are the types of perspectives that should be left in the slime at the bottom of the political cesspool.

 

The leftist media these days, no matter on what continent or based in what country, have very much abandoned good journalism and objectivity in favor of partisanship and/or ideology. And that is tragic. But thank you for your post. We may not always come to the same conclusion, but you are one of the few who is really analyzing and using critical thinking to evaluate the information you are getting. I respect anybody who isn't swallowing deliberate propaganda wholesale.

Proud Boys may indeed be chauvenistic, but as a very feminist minded woman, I don't really have a problem with that. I've never had any difficulty convincing any guy, however chauvenistic, that I could do something competently. Or putting some guy who needed it back on his heels for that matter. As a result most of my very eclectic work history has been in areas that have been heavily dominated by men.

But however much the leftist media and leftist organization classify Proud Boys as white supremacist, they are in no way that or anything even close. As for their leader, I can't speak to what he may or may not have said in the past. I don't necessarily agree with you that any attitude cannot change over the years. But I am not finding anything really objectionable on their website.

 

This was a win for the Proud Boys.

 

^ This video still crack my ass up laughing.


"Fear is part of our tactics".

Again need I remind people what ANTIFA are: Violent scummy thugs who ought to be thrown in jail for their violent tendencies and arson. They attack everything from children to elderly who just so happen to be present and/or walking by, forcing them into the fray.

Not only that, but the Proud Boys, of which had intended to do a rally there, did their rally thing, called it a win, and left for a BBQ elsewhere.

 

It's the "Patriot Prayer" leader, Joey Gibson, who posted that offensive stuff, not the Proud Boys leader.

I think the Proud Boys' main problem is that they don't realize that if they let white supremacists get anyway near them, if they do or say anything that can be made to look like they are sympathetic, or even neutral, towards white supremacists, then the lying media will immediately grab it, twist it, and broadcast it to the world, and gullible idiots -- we've got one trying to post on this thread whose posts get more and more incoherent -- will believe it.

Okay, the "Invincibly Ignorant" as St Thomas Aquinas would have called them, are beyond hope. They believe, to quote Tertullian, Credo quia absurdum just because it is absurd. Nothing can be done for people like that. If you're a charitable person, you just pity them and thank goodness you weren't born with a brain like that. Or maybe it was their environment, who knows?

But there are millions of ordinary decent people who get all of their information from the evening news.. So we have to be very very very very careful in everything that we do, to make sure we are not contaminated by white supremacists.

Re 'first wave' feminism: I think the liberation of half the human species, which I have had the great good fortune to watch in my lifetime, will be seen by future historians as the most significant event of the 20th Century, bar none. In a field where I know something, mathematics, it used to be solemnly believed that women could not really excel at the top level, because of problems in visualization. Then, not long ago, an Iranian woman, Miriam Mirzakhani, won the Fields Medal, the 'Nobel Prize' of mathematics. I laughed out loud when I heard the news. Tried to read her work and understand what she had accomplished but couldn't even begin to understand it -- i think it had to do with visualization of many dimensions but it was beyond my male brain.

We go forward.

 

Whoa ... just read that article. Everyone else should as well. I sort of like Soros' Open Society initiative, in principle. But ... here is something I didn't know. I thought he was just an old semi-retired guy like me, giving a bit of money here and there to his favorite causes, motivated only by good will ... but of course giving 100 000 000 times as much as I do.

But I still like his linking up with the Koch Brothers, to form the Quincy Institute for Responsble Statecraft. They're all three of them shrewd businessmen, and I think they commissioned some very smart people to work out what would be the effect on their shareholdings of an all-out global thermonuclear war.

Evidently it would create a bear market, as in mutated bears roaming through the glazed-over rubble of New York City feeding on roasted corpses, so they've decided to try to 'rig the market' of foreign policy, so to speak.

Hope it works. But in the meantime, very interesting reading. So that's how government works.

 

LOL. My brand of feminism includes a belief that God made people male and female for a reason, that he made them attractive to each other and gave them sexual desire so that they would continue to make more people to populate the Earth, and he gave them a desire for permanency and instinct for cooperation so that they would form strong families and communities.

For that reason, I think in all situations inviting intimacy, it is wise to separate the girls from the boys unless you WANT them to have opportunity to or have no problem with them acting on their physical impulses. And I believe the traditional American family with dad, mom, and kids is the backbone of America and the best insurance for a peaceful, productive, prosperous nation.

And because I like men and put a great deal of value and importance on men as fathers, protectors, defenders, providers of the community, etc., I have no problem with guys acting like guys including salty language, pin up calendars, off color jokes etc. when their intention is not to be deliberately insensitive or insulting. So all male groups and organizations I don't have a problem with any more than all female groups and organizations.

And I think men and women should have equal opportunity to compete--without lowering desirable and necessary standards for anybody--in all areas in which one or the other gender is not a necessary factor.

Such attitudes make me anathema, unacceptable, traitor, and evil to the militant feminists of course, most especially those man haters that one radio talk show hosts characterizes as "femi-nazis."

I didn't know much about Patriot Prayer, so I looked it up and I am not finding much to criticize re Joey Gibson and Patriot Prayer though they are a bit more Libertarian (large "L") than I am.

But I honestly don't have a problem with either being what many would describe as chauvenist.

 

Beta Cuck for lyfe has apparently set up a fake gofundme.

 

Leave out any teleological implications, and substitute 'evolution by natural selection' for God, and I would agree with you about the sexes.

According to Wiki, these are the views of Gibson:

Well, I think that's pretty clear: he disavows white supremacists, supports a pathway to citizenship for non-criminal illegal immigrants, de-criminalization of marijuana and same-sex marriage, term limits, plus free speech.

Clearly a neo-Nazi. Right out of the NSDAP platform. Don't know why I didn't see it at the time... So glad our Lefties here called my attention to this modern-day would-be Hitler.

However, as I said, in the past ... well...I don't want to post what Gibson said here, but I'll try to find the relevant article with the mysogeny and link to it ... maddeningly, I cannot find it now although I was reading it a couple of hours ago.

 

Yep, too Libertarian, i.e. socially liberal, for me which of course makes him an atl right Neo-Nazi.

 

You know, when you read a bit about the people high up in the Nazi movement ... some of them were weird. Nature-worshipping pagans, believed in reincarnation, celebrated the solstice.... a lot like, come to think of it ... Oregon lefty-hippies .... but let's not go there.

 

I smell Photoshop.

 

If they are left alone by their rules, then no one else is affected. On the other hand, Lefties who use to be so against the "man" or the "establishment" have become the exact people they use to protest and now use the force of government to force their PC culture onto the rest of society.

I guess Lefties prefer AK-47's over AR15's since it's a communist invention, but Lefties cause more death and destruction on a daily basis than all conservatives on a yearly basis.

Yeah, we know what you fascists mean, or didn't you admit to being a bigot? Like the old Soviet Union which so many Lefties try to emulate, they claim any speech that goes against their agenda is something to be shut down and the people who speak it are either mentally ill or an enemy of the state. Stalin would be so proud of you.

 

Life is strange.

You sound just like me. There is not a single thing you have written here (not elsewhere though!) with which I would disagree, except that for many years I have been a member of Republicans Overseas, when I remember to pay my dues anyway, and you are a true independent..

So why are we on opposite sides? Probably some slight difference in our genomes -- you have one allelle of POL345, the gene that influences one's political disposition, and I have another. Just an accident.

But here's the salient point: political arrangements are getting shaken up, and not just in the USA.

Those old rigid superstructures of political parties and allegiances to them are cracking, as the tectonic plates of society shift. Economics, wars, mass immigration -- all now global in scale -- are throwing up challenges that the 'old' politicians can't handle.

The body politic has opened up, and fresh air is reaching parts of it that have never known it. But fresh air brings with it some dangerous microbes and we've seen them begin to flourish, especially in Eastern Europe. (Don't like Trump? Imagine if he was Mr Orban.)

The operative point is this: no one knows the future, but there may be opportunities for sensible conservatives and sensible liberals and sensible centrists to get their voices heard, maybe in some institutionalized way -- a new political party? -- in the future. I'm not optimistic about this, as I think the social apparatus that administers American culture has gone past the point of no return, and we are taking on water faster than we can bail it out, but I could be wrong.

One such opportunity may be in helping America shake off the chains of empire. Conservatives used to be reflexive militarists but we have been mugged by reality.

Another might be in sensible programs to address the growing lumpenization of the American working class, which is being transformed from steelworkers into shelf-stackers. To repeat a favorite mantra of mine, many social conservatives, down at the base of the Republican Party, are actually economic liberals (''liberal" as in Tennessee Valley Authority, not von Mises.)

So we must not let our animosities get in the way of co operation, if opportunity for such arises some day.

After all, Stalin co operated with Roosevelt, and you can cast my side in either role you like.

 

And I call that reply BS since you try to sound like a moderate yet you use a blanket statement that conservatives have hate in their hearts. I assume you don't agree with societies generally accepted moral standards and thus claim conservatives want to control your lives. Or do you base that belief on the single issue of abortion which isn't really about a woman's body when there is a being inside them with a different DNA. Not many conservatives believe all abortions should be banned. I try to stay away from that issue since I have conflicting feelings about it.

 

I have the exact same attitude towards abortion. I'm "pro-choice", but, probably like most people, I am less and less pro-choice, the more and more what started as a microscopic fusion of two cells, becomes more and more like a baby.

I think our real ethical/moral impulses come from identifying others with ourselves, which probably had an evolutionary value for a pack animal like us. (There is big debate about 'group evolution' which addresses this issue -- above my pay grade but it seems reasonable.)

That old conservative icon, Adam Smith, usually known for his defence of free markets, spelled it out pretty well nearly three centuries ago, in his Theory of Moral Sentiments. Leave out his obligatory references to the supernatural, and I think he got it right.

I don't identify with an egg that has just had a sperm embedded in it. Doesn't look like me at all. But a 'fetus', curled up helplessly, a bit more. And at eight months -- is it true the Democratic Party is coming around to very late term abortion? I don't follow this issue so I don't know -- well, I sure as hell wouldn't want to take surgical shears and cut it to pieces, and not just for the same reason that would make me reluctant to remove someone's appendix.

Abortion has something in common with capital punishment. The best, and I think decisive, argument against capital punishment is the wrongly-convicted one. (I don't understand those conservatives who think government is not capable of running a railroad, but is capable of always reaching the right decision on whom to put to death. If there are people who can always get it right on that one, why not put them in charge of nationalized railroads?)

But there is a second argument on capital punishment: the very act of deliberately killing another human being tends to demoralize society. We want killing to be surrounded by strong taboos, which we relax only under necessity, namely, when not killing means greater killing -- the military situation is the paradigm case. We don't want pacifist soldiers.

Hopefully, the advance of science and technology -- better birth control, even artificial wombs -- will make this issue a moot point. At the moment, it's a major fracture line in the conservative movement, because, as our liberal opponents miss no opportunity to point out, it is the one big area where we are interfering in other people's lives.

 

I see that you believe there should be a conservative only land where the establishment and force of government is used to enforce "their PC culture" on everyone.

I see you are ignorant of the facts. How many "conservatives" have shot up schools, malls and churches vs "leftists".

Yep, I'm a bigot. I see you equate bigot with fascist, which is revealing. I also see that you equate a "leftist" with commies.
That's exactly like equating "conservative" with fascist/racist. But you knew that. Addie would be prouder of you, no doubt.

 

LOL okay.

But honestly, re the misogyny thing, don't worry about it. I believe you did read something somewhere about that, but I won't judge somebody on some fool thing they thought or said years ago, most especially when I know nothing of the context, what prompted it, etc. Who among us has never said something that would look really bad on the front page of the newspaper or quoted on the evening news? I prefer to judge people on what they do and say now and not what they once were or believed..

Also, when I was in college as a journalism major and therefore reporter for the campus newspaper, and also worked free lance reporting on university matters to the local town newspaper, I was always looking for the next big story. I joined everything to have a foot in the door to whatever was going on. (That was in the days that universities actually allowed all points of view to be heard and evaluated.) So at one time I was a member of the campus John Birch Society and also the Young Communists of America. I didn't support the then McCarthyistic views of the Birchers and I have never supported communism, but can you imagine how the modern day press could make that look on my resume if I was running for high office now?

I judge the Oregan ANTIFA people by what they say and do now these days. And the Oregon ANTIFA, as are ANTIFA everywhere, are angry, hateful, destructive, dangerous people, and their actions should be condemned by honorable people regardless of their personal political beliefs.

 

Given the press today, your Young Communist membership would be to your credit.

 

Here's more:

 

Agreed. But when I was in college, we were still dealing with the aftermath of McCarthyism and communism was still considered pretty much 100% evil and dangerous at that time. However, we had Russian communist speakers on campus a couple of times, and they were treated with the utmost respect by faculty and students alike. The auditorium was pretty well full when they came because some students were assigned the lecture as part of their studies--that would be all of us journalism students too-and some just went out of curiosity.

I was blessed to be educated in an era in which students were eager to learn all they could about everything and universities encouraged and invited learning about and using critical thinking to evaluate all sides of every issue. And gave us opportunity to do that as much as reasonably possible. But then we were blessed with institutions of higher learning instead of indoctrination centers.

I think the thugs, toughs, and hoodlums in Portland are not educated at all but are rather indoctrinated and radicalized.

 

Antifa nearly stabbed a veteran at the protest.

 

Yep, I saw that article as well.... This is a shocking as the sun rising in the East tomorrow...

It's actually a foolproof strategy, since the city cannot deny their permits OR allow their police to beat the living **** out of every Proud Boy who shows up.

Sophie's choice...