For once, I would like a GOP president to clean up their own economic mess

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Quantum Nerd, Aug 22, 2019.

  1. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Now, I realize that I probably get in trouble with this with my liberal friends. However, as much as I don't like Trump and his policies, I secretly wish that he gets another term, so he would have to clean up his own economic mess.

    With all the talk about a recession impending, I fear the following: Recession happens in 2020, a Democrat gets elected to the WH, and then has to clean up behind the GOP disaster. Of course, this would make the Democrat, whoever she/he is, look really bad because economic numbers aren't usually rosy when recovering from a recession. In addition, congressional GOP critters would call for austerity, because all of a sudden the deficit matters again, making the recovery even slower. This has all played out before.

    Second, it would show the electorate once and for all that the GOP tax cutting scheme doesn't work in the long run, but just gives a short-term sugar high that results in huge deficits and economic crashes.

    Now, what would Trump do if he would face a recession? Cut taxes again? Gut more regulations? Fire the Fed chair to get a puppet in there to set interest rates negative? Give people a trillion dollar stimulus? The problem is, the tax cut ammunition is already spent. I doubt people will have appetite for another one.
     
  2. Jiminy

    Jiminy Well-Known Member

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    Get Crazy Donnie out first, worry about any potential down-sides later.
     
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  3. opion8d

    opion8d Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cleaning up GOP messes has become a Democratic trademark.
     
  4. Socratica

    Socratica Well-Known Member

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    Tax cuts lead to economic crashes? That's a new one...

    This makes no sense. How is the "tax cut ammunition already spent" with statutory rates above zero? Are you assuming that there is a crowding out effect?
     
  5. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Tax cuts overstimulate the economy for short periods of time, making people spend money they don't have. The resulting debt overhang enhances and accelerates the next crash.

    Name one president who pushed through two tax cuts while in office? The electorate already realizes that the tax cut (or should we say tax deferment to future generations) came with the price of an exploding deficit. Do you think they want more of that?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  6. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Crashes happen regardless
    Tax cuts and deficit spending are policies to deal with crashes
    If you slash taxes and run huge deficits during good times, you got no tools left to stimulate the economy when an inevitable crash comes

    Also. If you over stimulate the economy. You get a bubble economy which makes the next crash worse. Kinda like taking speed.... it is great, till it is not,
     
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  7. Socratica

    Socratica Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what you are talking about. Tax cuts lowers effective rates and increases disposable income, which causes changes in consumption expenditures and savings. This is money people already have. Are you implying that tax cuts will encourage people to go on spending binges and encouraging them to take on debt? If so, that is unfounded by any conventional economic theory.

    We know tax cuts have lower fiscal multipliers than government expenditures, which is why governments are more willing to them in response to a recession than tax cuts. As such, they're less likely to create an expansionary gap in the economy.

    Relevance?
     
  8. Socratica

    Socratica Well-Known Member

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    How? If marginal tax rates aren't zero, you can still cut taxes. If a nation controls its currency, it can still engage in deficit spending. This "no tools left" argument only makes sense for nations like Greece and Spain, not for nations like the United States.

    Bubbles refer to asset prices, which is unrelated to what we are discussing here.
     
  9. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This just in:

    Desperate for an actual campaign issue that connects with Americans; Dems hope for recession.
     
  10. MolonLabe2009

    MolonLabe2009 Banned

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    Meanwhile...

    U.S. jobless claims fall in sign of labor market strength...
    https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1VC1EY?__twitter_impression=true

    Thanks Trump!

    Thanks for Making America Great Again!
     
  11. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Actually after recessions we usually get good economic numbers, the exception being the failed Obama/Democrat recovery after the 2008 recession which didn't even begin until a year after the Democrats took back the Congress. But if you note when the Republicans took back the House and then the Senate and then the WH you see how the economy improved and the deficits were cut from the Democrats $1,000B ones. Unfortuniately we have too many RINOs and Democrats in Congress where we need more fiscal conservatives. You really don't think a Democrat House, Senate and White House will cut spending and the deficits do you?
     
  12. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Like when? The Republicans handed the Democrats a strong economy and a paltry $161B deficit January of 2007. What happened under Democrat policies after that?
     
  13. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Republicans directly caused the crash of 2008. It was the worst on record in 80 years. That’s expensive to fix, and takes time. Luckily, we had democrats in office to clean up the mess again and their policies led to the longest economic expansion since WW2.
     
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  14. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    As you are well aware, republicans directly caused the crash of 2008. Democrats turned that around to record high stock market, cut UE in half and Obama had the most consecutive months of jobs growth of any US president in history.
     
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  15. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And it is pointless to try and hold a discussion with you as you will only claim to have already refuted any stated and refuse to respond to direct questions over your assertions. Your history is quite clear.
     
  16. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    White flag noted and accepted.
     
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  17. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    None offered, it is pointless to try and hold a discussion with you as you will only claim to have already refuted anything stated and refuse to respond to direct questions over your assertions. Your history is quite clear.
     
  18. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    White flag noted and accepted a second time.
     
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  19. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is this week's winner for the most ridiculous post I've read.
     
  20. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why don't you try to answer instead of lame dodges?

    Like when? The Republicans handed the Democrats a strong economy and a paltry $161B deficit January of 2007. What happened under Democrat policies after that?
     
  21. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Good economic numbers, like 9% unemployment in 2009? You call that good economic numbers?

    Of course, when someone continues blaming congressional Dems on the 2008 recession, which actually started in weakening of the housing market in 2007, it is hard to have a coherent discussion.
     
  22. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I agree that if a Democrat is elected in 2020 and if the economy goes into recession, the Congressional GOP would start complaining about deficits. However I realize you know nothing much about the GOP other than what the news media tells you, so you may not be aware that the GOP voting base would be a lot less inclined to tolerate that sort of hypocrisy after Congressional Republicans worked to destroy (successfully) the Tea Party, which wanted responsible deficit reduction.

    You also seem unaware that Congressional Democrats (and their forum counterparts) didn't care about any sort of deficits until Trump's inauguration, so hypocrisy works both ways.

    The theoretical Democratic President being sworn in in 2021 will have inherited the budget deficits of two years of a Democratic Congress. Will he complain about those budget deficits?
     
  23. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    4.5% in 2007. Yes a good number and a paltry $161B deficit. Then January of 2007 the Democrats took back the Congress.

    Who did? I blame them for their policies which failed to mitigate the depth and length and unemployment numbers which blew right past the 8% UE Obama said his stimulus would hold it to. I blame them for not getting us into a full blown recovery and spending all that money failing to do so. Why are you blaming the Republicans for a recession which didn't begin to a year after they lost the Congress, what were the Democrats doing all that time sitting around with their thumbs up their arses?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  24. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    Come on Mike, you are a smart guy, you know better than this.

    1) Congressional Republicans didn't destroy the Tea Party, They just stopped caring once Obama left office.

    2) The Dems have the House ONLY. McConnel already said that he will block anything the bring forward in the Senate. There is nothing the Dems can do.

    3) The Dems DID care about deficits before Trump. However, they realized that in the deepest recession since the great depression, government spending had to compensate for private sector spending, to prevent total collapse of the economy. They GOP, on the other hand, wanted austerity, until they got the WH. Then, they started spending like drunken sailors.
     
  25. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Good example of what I'm talking about. You have a very different version of events than most Republicans. The 2015 Omnibus Spending Bill was a massive rebuke to the Tea Party, shepherded through by SOH Ryan and Sen Majority Leader McConnell, who famously said his number one goal was to "crush" the Tea Party. That pretty much killed the Tea Party. You may have noticed (or more likely not noticed) that the Tea Party played almost no role in the 2016 election process. The movement was mostly dead, killed by the GOP.

    But I know you like your version better, so you'll keep believing it.

    The Budget comes from the House. There is no way McConnell can block that. Where do you think the bipartisan spending bill that Trump signed came from?
     

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