Should people have a right to sleep on city streets?

Must homeless shelters are private charities with people on staff to help them adjust to the real world. What's cheaper Homeless shelters or a massive outbreak of drug resistant bubonic plague?

 

Private charities with some government funding perhaps?

 

Socialists!!!!!!

That's what righties always say if the government tries to solve a problem.

 

What are these cities doing to rectify this growing problem? Rats are everwhere, needles are everywhere, diseases are prevalent, businesses are closing. How much should taxpayers have to put up with before steps are taken to get these people off the streets? These cities look like Third World countries. No wonder taxpayers are leaving these cities in droves. What does Gavin Newsom and others like him care? They aren't affected because they live behind walls in rich areas...it's the regular taxpayers who are really paying for this insanity...

 

Not all vets served in combat and have PTSD

Particularly older vets from the Viet Nam era

 

I think they should, but I think we should help them get off the streets

when your tired your tired, if you have no where to sleep, you can only stay awake so long

many need help, treatment, many jails charge rent now, so jailing them only puts them in more debt and even more in need of sleeping on the streets

most that sleep on the streets either have mental issues or drug issues or both, they need help

if we want to help them we have to agree it's a cost we are willing to pay, we will need more mental health centers

I would like to see a free place people could stay like a prison but with no doors on the rooms where they could check out from society for a bit and get their act together... but I also know drugs would be a issue, it could not allow people on drugs or alcohol in as then it would just be enabling them

 

Jails and asylums ARE public property. At least they have floor drains to a sewer!

 

I think we need something like that too, somewhere people can just check out of society for a while

people have to sleep, it's required

 

Jails change rent?

 

many do now a days, ours does

"Pay-to-stay (imprisonment)"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay-to-stay_(imprisonment)

"In the United States, pay-to-stay is the practice of charging prisoners for their accommodation in jails. The practice is controversial, because it can result in large debts being accumulated by prisoners who are then unable to repay the debt following their release, preventing them from successfully reestablishing themselves in society."

 

And if they have no money?

 

they sleep on the streets?


not sure what ours charge, but this is Michigan

"Michigan Jails’ ‘Pay-To-Stay’ Jail Fees Stir Controversy"

https://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/michigan-jails-pay-to-stay-jail-fees-stir-controversy

"“Pay-to-stay” is little known practice of county jails throughout Michigan. Jails can charge inmates from $20 to $60 per day (the maximum under state law), which can leave an individual with thousands of dollars of debt upon release."

 

Do people have a right to walk on city streets?

May they converse on city streets? Assemble on city streets?

 

What government funding there is, is almost entirely local and there isn't much of it. And increasingly the religious based ones don't want it because it comes with too many ridiculous strings attached.

 

Until we designate a place for homeless what choice do they have? Cities need to fence off areas outside of town and set up homeless camping areas. Not pretty but I see no other solution

 

Not jailing but providing a place to camp that has water and toilets and food. Those that try to camp in the city are just taken there and released. Make it far enough out in the boonies where it's very difficult to return.

 

We do that now but they sleep and crap in the streets

 

Why is it only insanely bad in Democrat run cities?

 

Illegal without a viable alternative?

 

All cities have homeless but they flock to democrat cities because of the policies that let them crap in the street and camp in parks.Right now that's a safety valve as conservative cities crack down but it's not a good long term answer to the problem. Spokane has made panhandling illegal and homeless are leaving for Seattle which merely shifts the problem. All cities need to crack down but a place for homeless to live needs to be provided. We can't just lock them all up in jail or shoot them like dogs.

 

That question has probably been asked millions of times without a successful answer.

Understanding the situation requires understanding how minds work, and how they differ.

Being self-sufficient requires a person to find value in themselves. it requires some self-respect, some ambition and pride.

This is not something you can create with legislation. You cannot gift it to a person- they can only come from the person themselves deciding they want to be able to respect themselves. Then, they must earn it from themselves- and that means refusing to take what you have not earned. Dependency is an addiction, it is not easy to break- and the fact that we have politicians and those thinking themselves to be helping people by perpetuating dependency makes it far more difficult. Being dependent is giving the power over your own life to those you are dependent on. This is true for a social dependent as well as a drug addict.

Self-sufficiency is also power, as it gives the person themselves the control not only of their support, but of the ability to build respect for themselves- and discovering that they can control that with their choices.
When you give them what they will not earn on their own, you make easier to stay dependent- and powerless. You literally destroy the ability to discover self-respect, to lift themselves up.

Thus there is a great deal of difference between a hand up- meaning assistance to a person doing their best so that they can recover faster....
And a hand-out, meaning assistance to a person unwilling to try, and seeing no need because somebody will give them enough to get by at the level they are at.

You cannot give people that will not help themselves a hand-up. You can only prolong and support their situation with the hand-out. And if you do that- you will, like several west-coast cities have proven- you will pollute and contaminate your own community, punish or drive away the citizens who support the community and make it a good place- and at the same time, make your community a magnet for those seeking hand-outs, resulting in a self-perpetuating and growing problem.

Nature's primary tool is responsibility. It requires the individual to make choices, to deal with the consequences of those choices, and to learn from them is they are to avoid continued mistakes. It is the ultimate teacher. One might note that outside of the damage done by human beings- nature has had millions of species thriving for millions of years, with out law, religion, psychologists or any of the means we use to try to keep ourselves functional. This has been done without poisoning or trashing the planet, without using up the natural resources- and there is a harmony that works for all, the smallest, the weakest, the largest, the strongest. All those millions of species apparently know something that we do not. That would be nature's first principle- that every individual is responsible for themselves, period.

I think the answer to your question is- we can't help them, until they truly decide to help themselves. Anything we do before that point only keeps them in dependency and demoralized.
What we can do is keep the door open for those who find the will to change. When and if such a person is ready and genuinely working to do for themselves, there needs to be a hand-up to show them the path and encourage them.

Many will say- "But these are human lives!" And that is true- but the value of any life is determined by the person living it.
It is up to them, not the rest of us, to decide what value it will have. We do not have that power to control that- only they do; it is their choice.
It's not a choice to be less, it's a choice not to be more that keeps such people where they are.

 

Agree with everything you said but it doesn't answer the question of what to do with people who can't or won't help themselves. Letting them camp and crap in our streets is not the answer. Jailing them is not the answer. Shooting them like rabid dogs is not the answer. All i can think of is providing legal areas for them to camp with access to good and water and toilets and removing them to those locations as they filter into cities.

 

The problem is a lot more than and bigger than drugs. Some of it is a tightening of the screws on state mental hospitals back in the eighties that made it far more difficult to commit people who required institutional care to the places where they could get such care. The state hospitals were in due course supposed to be replaced with group homes but for a variety of reasons not the least of which was NIMBY that never happened. NOte the dude runs the local county jail is almost constantly complaining that on any given day a third to a half of the prisoners are people with varying mental conditions that neither he nor his guards have either the training or the equipment to effectively deal with them or help them

 

yep, it tough for county jails, cause once they are their guardians, they know they have mental issues, but nothing at their disposal to care for them, their hands are tied, this needs to change

this is also bad for inmates as these people have mental issues and can be dangerous to them as well as the staff

 

The problem is that patients rights advocates and lawyers have made it extremely difficult to house even the most criminally insane. We are never going to have enough group homes and while the wealthy have the money to keep their chipped blocks in a private sanitarium somewhere the rest of us can't even begin to afford it. We would agree that there should be government facilities for people that are a danger to themselves and others. But how do we do it without simply creating a giant holding pen for the mentally ill or running afoul of those same patients rights advocates and their lawyers?