Trump's trade war with China

Sorry but this is a perfect example of alien logic.
USA and the EU countries have big trade deficits. Their imports are much bigger than their exports. In other words, they consume much more than what they produce. That's why they have big budget deficits and ever-increasing public debts.
You have to make debt in order to keep consuming more than what you produce. The amount of the annual debt is the same level as the difference between imports and exports in those years.
You should have learned already in 2008 that ever-increasing debts are leading to an inevitable debt crisis and an economic crash.
Having a big economy is not an excuse for consuming more than what you produce.

Because you borrow money and then you waste it on "increasing your living standards". Your economy is inflated by your exaggerated, unsustainable annual debts. You are only better in living from other people's money. That's a quite a scary 'performance'.

The Americans have no money to buy more than Chinese consumers. That's why they have to make more debts in order to keep buying.

You can tax your own workers but you can't tax the Chinese workers. So the trade deficit is not only outsourcing jobs to other countries but it is also reducing the amount of money you collect in taxes. That means you create a budget deficit (you can't cover the costs of running the government). That means you have to make more debt in order to cover all the costs for running your government. The alternative is to gradually reduce the administrative apparatus until one day you have no administration anymore.

The logic you are exposing there is completely outlandish and in line with the lies in the mainstream media.
If you stop producing paper and you import all your paper from China that means all the workers in the paper-producing US industry will lose their jobs. The increase of imports will create a few more jobs for transportation of that paper. Yet sending 100,000 workers into unemployment and creating 300 more jobs for transporting of the extra imported stuff is really bad for the economy of your country, as your budget deficit and your public debt proves it.
Yet the mainstream media claims that trade deficit is creating jobs. Because those "journalists" in the mainstream media make a living from convincing the public to create a new economic crisis.
How Imports Boost Employment, 25 February 2017, ANNE O. KRUEGER, project-syndicate.org

Your country is bankrupt, you can't pay your debts. The next presidents will only grow the economic problems. Trump did too little and way too late in order to solve this problem. He should have reduced the trade deficit since the very first day in office.
The collapse of the economy is inevitable. And that's because there are too many people like you, who are convinced that irresponsible spending and increase of debts is actually good and they are doing everything they can in order to only grow the problems.

 

At this point Trump has proven he was the least economically conservative Republican running. And now it is looking like his Dem opponent in 2020 will likely have better economically conservative cred.

 

Lol, no. Not even remotely true. That isn't even close to what a trade deficit means

 

Pure lies.
And that's exactly the only thing you can get from the Trump haters. They have no evidence to support their claims and therefore they just dictate the 'truth'.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/trade_deficit.asp
Trade Deficit = Total Value of Imports – Total Value of Exports

 

If you truly understood both your last post that I responded to and this post, then you would understand why you are wrong. I can go into detail if you want and further correct Trumpist economic anti-conservatism and anti-capitalism if you want, but this is literally econ 101. Please familiarize yourself more with your own sources.

 

Arrogant and insulting statements, exactly what you can expect from the Trump haters.
You are not capable to come with anything intelligible. You just mystify your statements in ultra-arrogance and deep insults. You are only trying to intimidate your opponents, suggesting you have a "deep understanding" that is beyond the capacity of the average person to understand.
And that's exactly how the elites got us into this deep public debt and economic mess - by creating confusion; by using the media to convince the average citizen that the economy is beyond their capacity to understand.
You do not care about reality and you are only dictating 'the truth'.
And that makes it impossible to have any conversation with you.

 

Germany has a nearly $300 billion trade surplus. Just saying that the simplistic notion that EU countries have trade deficits is not correct.

 

The exceptions are Germany and Switzerland. And a few others like Hungary and Czech Republic. Yet the majority of the EU countries have trade deficits. And increasing debts. For example France, Spain, UK, Greece.
Consuming and not producing is very bad. The consequence is economic crash. It happened in 2008 and it will happen again.

 

I am not concerned about the economies in the EU. I am solely concerned about our economy when it comes to Trump's trade war with China.

China's GDP is $12.24 trillion. https://www.google.com/search?sourc......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i131i67.Py8E_kYTguc

The GDP of the U.S. is $19.39 trillion. https://www.google.com/search?sourc...5......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i67.6cbL0nDXILQ

So much for consuming more than we produce.

I noticed you didn't use any sources.

The logic you are exposing is completely outlandish and in line with the B.S. we get from Trump and his economic advisors, Larry Kudlow and Peter Navarro. Navarro is the architect of Trump's trade war with China. He is a Democrat. Protectionist tariffs are a liberal concept.

 

Duh!

 

These are final results of our day on Wall Street. Trump's precipitated drop on stocks is far worse than earlier. The Dow ended up off 623 points, reducing the Dow to 25,629. that is 81 points below March 15 when Trump started his trade war with China. The Nasdaq was off 240 points and the S&P 76.

What does all that mean? Because of Trump's tweets today, for the fourth time in a month, he cost millions of Americans to permanently lose principle in their retirement investment accounts. There are many doubters of that statement, but here is how that works.

It is really quite simple. It is 4th grade math.

An IRA has $100,000 dollars in it. Because of Trump's announcement the account loses $5,000. So now the account is down to $95,000. Follow me so far?

Due to market changes, at some point the account gains $5,000. So now the account is back up to $100,000. So, the account didn't lose money. Right?

WRONG! If the account had not lost the money in the first place, when market changes caused it to gain $5,000, the account would have $105,000 in it, not $100,000. The $5,000 lost because of Trump is permanent.

Sorry about that. I mean it. I lost, too, but I'm mostly in bonds. Too old to gamble.

Now I know what some are going to say. Some will say that is ridiculous or something similar. Some will lecture me on the stock market and investing. But no will be able to tell me why the 4th grade math is ridiculous or something similar. That's because the 4th grade math is right on.

Some will say, "Nothing is permanent until it is sold." That argument is made to counter selling stocks because of a downward trend. It has nothing to do with loss of principle, which is what I am talking about.

Thank you Mr. President. I look forward to your next tweet. Praise the Lord. It is the weekend. Trump can't do anymore damage until Monday.

 

Trump just made matters far worse. To him, this is a zero sum game. He simply doesn't care.




Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump


Replying to @realDonaldTrump
...unfair Trading Relationship. China should not have put new Tariffs on 75 BILLION DOLLARS of United States product (politically motivated!). Starting on October 1st, the 250 BILLION DOLLARS of goods and products from China, currently being taxed at 25%, will be taxed at 30%...



Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump


Replying to @realDonaldTrump
...Additionally, the remaining 300 BILLION DOLLARS of goods and products from China, that was being taxed from September 1st at 10%, will now be taxed at 15%. Thank you for your attention to this matter!

Did Trump forget he postponed the September 1st tariffs until December 15th?

If he imposes what now is a 15% tariff on popular goods like computers, cellphones, sporting gear, clothing, tennis shoes, etc. Trump can kiss his reelection goodby along with several Republican Senators and representatives.

Trump waited until the market closed before sending those tweets.

Trump really screwed the pooch this time. I am not looking forward to Monday. I have investments, too. Fortunately, it is just one account. Most of my savings is in other accounts, not stocks.

 

Trump heads into the G-7 summit in coastal France more isolated than ever — and perhaps never more in need of the international coordination. Unfortunately, he has repeatedly assailed his G-7 partners.

This is a huge mistake. Trump has staked out a trade war with China, and the smart thing to do was to encourage our allies to partner with him in his trade war. All agree China is guilty of excesses and manipulation in its trading practices.

Instead, he has consistently attacked our allies much to the pleasure of the communist dictator of Russia, Vladimir Putin.

 

You are importing much more than what you are exporting. You are importing stuff in order to consume it. And in order to export stuff, you have to produce it. So yes, you are consuming more than what you are producing.
You are not capable to produce and to export as much stuff as you are importing.
It doesn't matter how big is your economy. You consume more than what you produce. That's why your debt is increasing.
You have a bigger economy and you produce more than China. Ok, fine. Yet you keep consuming more than what you can produce. You consume goods produced outside of the country and you are not capable to produce enough in order to compensate for that consumption.
You increased your imports too much and you sent too many people into unemployment. You are not capable to export enough in order to create new jobs for those unfortunate workers. So you have to make debts in order to feed them. This is a topic that you pretend it doesn't exist and you keep insisting in an absurd manner on something completely irrelevant in this conversation like comparing the size of US and Chinese economy.
It looks like you don't even understand the relation between imports and consumption and between exports and production and you don't understand what debt is and what are the consequences of the ever-increasing debts. You just keep insisting on some alien connection between the size of the economy and the consumption and production of the country.

As anyone can see, the media was and it still is full of "experts in economy" that tells everybody how important is to create more speculation and debts, right before the next speculation and debt crisis. Do you remember year 2008?
The credibility of the "experts in economy" is absolutely zero. You have to rely on logic instead of trusting the "experts" because they have no reliability whatsoever.
Just look and convince yourself how passionate and arrogant are the "experts" who try to ridicule Peter Schiff when he predicted the 2008 crisis.
Peter Schiff was Right (2006-2007 Edition)
Peter Schiff: "the basic problem in the US economy is that we have too much consumption and borrowing and not enough production and savings".
The situation is very similar today.

No, your logic is from a parallel universe and it is perfectly in line with the "logic" of the "experts in economy" who are teaching the people (in full arrogance) how important is to increase the poverty "in order to improve the economy".

Any decent person can understand how important is to have protectionism. It doesn't matter what their ideology is. The "Republicans" vs. "Democrats" is just a distraction created by the super rich, in order to make the people like you to waste their time on irrelevant, ideological, unpractical and meaningless conversations and debates.
The politics, the ideologies and the political parties were invented by the super-rich in order to distract your attention. Obviously, the sane and the basic logic are beyond any ideology.

 

I've even provided the link. You are just spamming.
Just like the rest of the anti-trumpists, you can't resort to any logic or evidence in order to support your claims and therefore you just simply dictate 'the truth'.

Peter Schiff predicting the 2008 debt crisis. "Sometimes medicine tastes bad and you got to swallow it".
It's the same thing here. It's the same thing as president Bush increasing steel tariffs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_United_States_steel_tariff) - the decision is indeed increasing the prices of imports, and that stimulates the internal production.
Once again, you talk like the "experts in economy" who claim that fixing the economy of the people hurts the economy and that "increasing the poverty is improving the economy".

And that makes sense, since those G-7 partners are sold to the international bankers and they keep increasing the poverty of their own people and the debts of their own countries "in order to improve the economy". They are also insisting on increasing the mass immigration while Trump is trying to reduce it.
Obviously there is no way they can agree on the most important issues.

Russia doesn't pulverize entire countries, like USA pulverized Iraq.
Vladimir Putin wants to have good relations with the West, just like Trump and unlike many of the other G7 leaders, so it's absolutely normal for Putin to be happy with Trump.

You are only spamming nonsense and toxic poison against Trump, just like the fake news producing mainstream media.

 

A deeply hypocrite and absurd complaint, from the very people who are trying to send all the jobs they can into China and who are trying to bring everyone in the West, in order to build the global communist project.
The Trump haters love Obama, Clinton and the "socialist" Soros, yet they are the first ones to complain about someone else for being a "communist".
Which is nothing unexpected, you can't expect the people who promote hate to understand logic and to say something that is not absurd.
The hate and the absurdity go hand in hand.
Together, they create madness.

 

Where you buy the stuff makes no difference. When you buy more than you can pay for you make debt.
Deficits are self correcting. When no one will loan you more money, you have to stop buying.

 

Comedy hour at the G-7.

A summit of world leaders devolved into a confusing spectacle on Sunday when Trump signaled regret for his trade war with China only to have the White House reverse his position hours later.

Trump, for the first time, appeared to acknowledge regrets about his trade war with China and the escalating feud.

To a reporter's question about his trade war and the fears of global recession, Trump replied, “Yeah, sure. Why not. Might as well. I have second thoughts about everything.”

Maybe for the first time in his Presidency Trump lapsed and was being perfectly honest, which would be a rare moment for him.

Several hours later, White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham tried to recast Trump’s comments, alleging they had been taken out of context.

“The president was asked if he had ‘any second thought on escalating the trade war with China.’ His answer has been greatly misinterpreted. President Trump responded in the affirmative — because he regrets not raising the tariffs higher,” she said in a statement.

Trump’s top economic adviser, Larry Kudlow, offered an even different characterization later, telling reporters that Trump had difficulty hearing the question.

Aw, this is getting to be too much.

The Washington Post helped with this statement. https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...42ea78-c67a-11e9-b5e4-54aa56d5b7ce_story.html

 

Trump has always been honest. Not something the left is used to.

 

I said:

Blizzard reacted by saying this:

No doubt he is a loyal Trump supporter. He sounds like one, anyway.

According to the state of California, I am a Republican, but I share the traditional views of the Republican Party, not the views of Trump Republicans. The latter have some very serious problems, not the least of which is the fact that their leader is leading them toward economic disaster.

 

Trump's trade war with China began March 22, 2018. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China–United_States_trade_war

This chart shows how serious the problem is. Anyone thinking that Trump is responsible for any profit they may have made on their investments should take a close look at this chart and use the scanning tool provided.

https://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years

Notice how the stock market jumped up roughly 2,000 points after the November election. The Republican Party took control of government and Wall Street reacted in a very positive way because business leaders are generally Republican.

The important point is this. The Dow leaped ahead by 2,000 points before Trump took office on Jan. 20, 2017. He hadn't done anything yet.

A far more important point is the fact that since Trump started his trade war with China, the Dow has actually lost ground.

On Jan. 29, 2018, the Dow hit its high of 26,439. As of August 23, 2019, the Dow stood at 25,629, a net loss of 810.

As simple math has shown, any loss in principle is permanent.

So much for Trump being the source of one's prosperity.

 

If that's what you need to tell yourself, sure. Meanwhile, here in reality, this doesn't require a "deep understanding." This is Econ 101. The trade deficit has absolutely nothing at all to do with public debt. At all. Ask any economist. Ask anyone who has passed an econ class and can recall its contents. The trade deficit has never, ever, ever meant public debt. Ever.

A trade deficit is not a monetary deficit. It is not a net loss. Never has been. Never will be.

The philosophy that trade deficits are somehow losses comes from mercantilism, a philosophy capitalism killed back in 1776. No modern economist treats trade deficits as a net loss. Modern economists understand that trade is not a zero-sum game and that trade creates wealth. And this doesn't require a "deep understanding." The average person can certainly understand it. I'm an average person and I understand it. The people I've tutored in econ are average people and they understand it. In fact, you implicitly acknowledge it every time you make a trade. A trade happens because both sides of the trade are better off having made the trade. This ain't rocket surgery. In fact, if you understand that you can be a benefit to your employer, you understand it to, whether you realize it or not.

I've give two examples every average person should be able to understand: 1) You bought the computer you are communicating on rather than building every aspect of it yourself and 2) You, at least presumably, can justify your own employment. Either one of those is enough to understand that a trade deficit isn't a net loss.

Let's start with the computer. Even if you assembled the components, you didn't build every component. You didn't manufacture the silicon, you didn't mine all of the metals, etc. Why? Well, it doesn't take a genius to understand that it would have taken a lot more resources for you to build the computer from scratch than the resources it took you to purchase it. Those extra resources it would have taken you to make the computer from scratch are called an opportunity cost in economics. Economically speaking, you've created wealth for yourself by buying the computer instead of trying to make it from scratch. It doesn't matter that you have a trade deficit with the manufacturer and you spend more money buying their goods than they spend on you . . . which is probably nothing at all. This basic realization (although it was about farming instead of computers) is what lead to Adam Smith to write Wealth of Nations to explain why mercantilism is wrong . . . the entire book is about how you and Trump are wrong.

How about your employment? Well, your employer has a trade deficit with you. It spends more on the resources you provide than you spend on any resources they provide. According to your logic, they should fire you. They should fire ALL of their employees. That is, of course, complete nonsense. You exchange labor for the money your employer spends on you, and that labor is worth more to your employer than the salary or wages they pay you. Otherwise they wouldn't have hired you. The trade deficit between your employer and you doesn't matter. They derive more value from your labor than the value of the money they are spending. It doesn't matter that they spend more money on you than you spend on them. Surely you understand this.

All of this applies to international trade as well. Trade, even at a so-called "deficit" allows us to save opportunity costs, making us more wealth even if the other country were to NOT BUY A SINGLE THING FROM US EVER. When the trade lowers a company's cost of doing business compared to domestic alternatives, it builds wealth. Whatever that other country buys from us doesn't change that.

Here are a few basic things that Trumpists and their pre-1776 ilk do not understand:

1) Trade deficits do not lower the money supply, which they try to imply. We spend US dollars on imports. Those dollars come back to us through foreign investments.
2) Prepare to have your mind blown . . . but when we spend money on imports we get goods and services in return that are worth something. In fact, they are worth more to the importing companies than the value of the money they spent. That's why they traded.
3) The goods and services we get in return are put to profitable use.

Neo-mercantilist, anti-capitalist, protectionist Trumpists want to pretend that the money we spend on imports just maaaaagically disappears. It doesn't. It comes back to us. They want to pretend we get nothing in return for our money. We do. They want to pretend the spending is a net loss. It isn't. If it were, no US company would ever import a thing.

I don't expect a response, but hopefully this all encourages some Trumpist somewhere in the world to do their econ homework.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ch...rkets-tank-and-currency-hits-11-year-flatline

Thanks obama !

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ch...rkets-tank-and-currency-hits-11-year-flatline

Oh no sandy ! You nailed it again! Nope, i as joking . Wrong again....

 

Still another example is the local super market. I'm betting even Blizzard has run up a huge trade deficit with his local market over the years, and he willingly continues to do so every week. Why? Because those are consumer goods his family needs.

By the same token the trade deficit is consumer goods, not cash losses, that our vibrant economy needs and American importers and purchasing companies continue to make huge profits from the trade deficit with China and other countries. Once gain, we have the largest and most successful economy in the world. Just ask Trump. Naturally, we will buy more goods from most countries than they will buy from us.

One of two things is true. Either Trump can't understand these concepts because he doesn't read, doesn't listen, and doesn't learn.

Or, he is lying. We know he only talks to his base. They are the only ones gullible enough to believe him. http://politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/we-support-donald-trump-ii.560719/

"Our Country has been losing HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS a year to China, with no end in sight...." Donald J. Trump.

Perhaps, Trump is hoping his base will believe his nonsense. They usually do. It's an intelligence thing.